Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Part of the img vs picture discussion, has been to define what features are actually required of this element. Primarily this has come down to: a) responsive handling of bandwidth vs image-quality (aka bandwidth vs file-size) b) pixel density of display devices c) art direction [ Did I miss any? ] Breaking them down: a) bandwidth is completely out of control of the website designer... (eg: 3G bandwidth varies x10 with time) so there is next to no reason for markup (HTML or CSS) to be related to bandwidth. If the designer chose to use JPEG2000, SVG, HDF or some other tileable/scalable format, then changes the scope somewhat, as the browser could implement range requests to the webserver to indicate which block of data would suit its currently available bandwidth. b) Pixel density depends completely on the target device... again outside of the designers control (unless you want to design for every version of every device in existence). And again the best a designer can do is offer multiple images. In which case, srcset seems like a nice way to go, as it leverage's an existing element thus allowing backwards compatibility. c) The art-direction aspect can be solved using variations of clip(...) combined with range-requests. An extra mention... the media: max-width variations are really not all that useful (unless you are targeting an exact screen size + density)... my eyes work well enough so that I can read small text, so would happily like to use tablet-width layouts on a small screen. The idea of context would seem appropriate... just need to remember that some of that context is not in the hands of the designer. Just my $0.02... cheers, Mathew Robertson On 14 September 2012 17:03, Dominic Hey dominic@gmail.com wrote: To paraphrase your own words.. if an img src=... is descriptive of the target image then srcset would be descriptive of the *set* of target images, no styling information there. Where I would be more inclined to agree with you would be the media attribute, however if you abstract the essence of a media query it is not, in itself, concerned with styling. It is a conditional test. Perhaps we need a fourth element - context - to join the separate channels of content, behaviour and appearance? On 14 September 2012 16:43, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Mathew Robertson mathew.blair.robert...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:53:34 +1000 Subject: responsive images In this week's links for light reading, there is a reference to responsive images, eg: http://www.netmagazine.com/features/road-responsive-images I'd be interested to hear this lists' opinion on the proposed syntax. To me this screams of putting styling information, into the document. For comparison, we now use media queries to change font sizes and element locations, based on viewport size and/or direction. I would have expected responsive images to be implemented in a similar manner, not with new html tags. In other words, an img src=... is descriptive of the target image, and we add alt-attributes to describe it as such. Simply showing a higher quality image of the same thing, shouldn't change the document structure. Thoughts? Mathew Robertson ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Very Neat. On May 26, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Justin Avery wrote: Trent Walton originally wrote about it with his article, , before Jordan Moore expanded on the idea with http://www.jordanm.co.uk/post/21863299677/building-with-content-choreography and was even nice enough to produce us a workable demo, http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreography and explains further http://www.jordanm.co.uk/contentchoreographydemo. In the demo, navigation in the source code is still sitting below the header section when the screen is at 480px and below. How does this work for AT (VoiceOver for example) though if I want the navigation stay below the fold? I don't supposed the AT is smart enough to do what I want if I don't place the navigation code at the bottom section of the page. tee On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 3:57 PM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote From: tee weblis...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:14:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisible AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should precede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a block of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to confuse user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to the bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation instead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, We have a project being worked on that is being done using RWD. For mobile, we are repeating the nav at the bottom of the page and showing/hiding - with display: block/none; - the appropriate navbar based on min-width media queries. My question is if the desktop main nav has a role of 'navigation', should the mobile nav at the bottom have that same role? Will that mess up screen readers et al? TIA -- * From: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 08:44:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Media queries and roles On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Don't know the answer for sure, but if you display none or make it invisi ble AT would ignore it no? My logic is, display:none invisible should pre cede ARIA elements. If a site speficically told the AT not to display a blo ck of content, it shouldn't bother to annouce the role(s) within it to conf use user. When doing RWD instead of mobile adaptation, that navigation goes to t he bottom of the page for the consideration of Mobile version, my approach is to use absolute position to target the desktop version's navigation inst ead of making duplication. tee On May 24, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Thanks tee. My thoughts as well, but wasn't sure. Also, I thought of absolute pos., but I do not think the structure I need will work with that. Thanks again -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Chad Furman wrote: Eww. Why is twenty-five-and-three-quarters percent better than 25.75% -- and why is it mandatory? Do you prefer typing 2012-04-01 or 1 April 2012 or ...? Why is putting one attribute per one selector per line cleaner? To me, that is unnessecary typing! MORE seems like a lot MORE typing and time than necessary... Glad it works for you... not for me, though. On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:31 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Russ Weakley r...@maxdesign.com.au Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 13:27:58 +1000 Subject: Possibly the best CSS framework ever? You have probably seen all sorts of CSS frameworks over the years... but is this the best CSS framework ever? http://morecss.org/ :) Russ ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** -- Chris F.A. Johnson, http://cfajohnson.com/ Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
You're kidding, right? You're not really arguing about More CSS are you? To quote a popular TV personality: Bazzinga! Check the date today, people... Sent from iOS 5 On Apr 1, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson ch...@cfajohnson.com wrote: On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, Chad Furman wrote: Eww. Why is twenty-five-and-three-quarters percent better than 25.75% -- and why is it mandatory? Do you prefer typing 2012-04-01 or 1 April 2012 or ...? Why is putting one attribute per one selector per line cleaner? To me, that is unnessecary typing! MORE seems like a lot MORE typing and time than necessary... Glad it works for you... not for me, though. On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:31 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Russ Weakley r...@maxdesign.com.au Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 13:27:58 +1000 Subject: Possibly the best CSS framework ever? You have probably seen all sorts of CSS frameworks over the years... but is this the best CSS framework ever? http://morecss.org/ :) Russ ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** -- Chris F.A. Johnson, http://cfajohnson.com/ Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
On 9/27/11 5:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote: Hi Tee When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used? ::trim:: all the best, Dave @davesmiths Try also, simply: metaname=viewport content=width=device-width ~d -- Desktop. Laptop. Tablet. Mobile! http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
I wonder if there is a way to restrict mobile phone devices from scaling, but allows touchscreen devices (ipad, samsung galaxy etc) do so. Tee On Sep 27, 2011, at 3:31 AM, David Laakso wrote: On 9/27/11 5:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote: Hi Tee When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used? ::trim:: all the best, Dave @davesmiths *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hi Greeting Hope everything of you goes well For now we just updated our website,you can take your time to check http://www.cheap-brands.com now we have a promotion sale,so if you have order,we will give a good discount to you as our customers,you can get best price+good quality items+best services, Any more info,welcome freely to contact us via email or online chat wishing you have a nice day 2011/5/9 Janet Jaffke jaf...@iit.edu The site is nice and clean and functions well. The font is a bit small but otherwise it seems to get the job done. J *** JANET JAFFKE Director Web/Electronic Communications Illinois Institute of Technology ⓟ 312.567.3155 Ⓕ 312.567.3243 jaf...@iit.edu On May 8, 2011, at 7:42 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 08:34:23 -0400 Subject: RE: [WSG] Desktop. Tablet. Mobile. At 10:38 AM +0530 5/6/11, Birendra wrote: The Site Design is not good. Not good?!? It looks pretty good to me. I wish I had Laakso's design skills. This would make a great example for an AJAX site. Works/looks great on my iPad. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com/ ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Web:www.nfl21.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Mevlana, Thank you. This seems to be what I'm looking for. Now I'll just need to experiment with trying to write a javascript (not my forte) that will publish a link to the site on the page if it was not opened as a pop-up and that should fix the problem. Best, Bob Bob, The following site may give you an idea: http://javascript.about.com/library/blpoptest.htm Basically, each popup window has an 'opener'. If the 'opener' exists, then user has come to the page via a popup, else the user has come via another method. Regards Mevlana On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:19 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Bob Schwartz b...@fotografics.it Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:14:59 +0200 Subject: pop up windows and Google I have several sites where i use pop-up windows to present certain types of information. When someone does a Google search sometimes Google lists results from these pop-up pages. When the searcher clicks on the Google result he gets the pop-up window as a stand-alone page in his browser with no links to anywhere on the actual site. Savvy people would just delete the part after the domain in the url bar, hit enter and be at the site, but I'm discovering not all are savvy. So, is anyone aware of any clever javascript that would detect if the page had not been opened as a pop-up and write a link to the actual site (and not write the link if opened as a pop-up)? Or, any other suggestion (besides don't use pop-ups)? Thank you, Bob Schwartz ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
No it is another way to say someone has been sacked! 12 months of leave! I need to switch to the public sector... 2011/2/21 Sam Lawry s...@vla.vic.gov.au Thank you for your email. I am on leave from Victoria Legal Aid until March 2012. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
No it isn't. My job is there for me. But I will unsubscribe On 14/03/2011, at 6:41 AM, Jay Tanna jta...@rocketmail.com wrote: No it is another way to say someone has been sacked! 12 months of leave! I need to switch to the public sector... 2011/2/21 Sam Lawry s...@vla.vic.gov.au Thank you for your email. I am on leave from Victoria Legal Aid until March 2012. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
I have previously unsubscribed from this list (vla email) as I am on leave, please confirm I am removed so I don't get any more of this rubbish. Cheers, Sam From my iPhone Sam Lawry writer I editor www.7projects.com.au 0418 533 541 On 14/03/2011, at 6:41 AM, Jay Tanna jta...@rocketmail.com wrote: No it is another way to say someone has been sacked! 12 months of leave! I need to switch to the public sector... 2011/2/21 Sam Lawry s...@vla.vic.gov.au Thank you for your email. I am on leave from Victoria Legal Aid until March 2012. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
Very good. Please use this link to rid yourself from us: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Hope this helps. No it isn't. My job is there for me. But I will unsubscribe *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
No you can't unsubscribe by email. You need to use this link: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Hope you can follow these simple instructions otherwise rubbish will keep coming your way. I have previously unsubscribed from this list (vla email) as I am on leave, please confirm I am removed so I don't get any more of this rubbish. Cheers, Sam *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (On leave - 12 months)
12 months of leave! I need to switch to the public sector... 2011/2/21 Sam Lawry s...@vla.vic.gov.au Thank you for your email. I am on leave from Victoria Legal Aid until March 2012. If you need help, please try: *Online Services (for publishing content or other online queries) – onlineservi...@vla.vic.gov.au *Community Legal Education (for publications, legal information and CLE sessions and projects) – c...@vla.vic.gov.au or call 03 9269 0223. Regards, Sam This e-mail and any attachments are confidential, and may contain legally privileged information. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and must not be copied, forwarded or disclosed to anyone without the sender's consent. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise via reply e-mail to the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its contents. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- James Ducker Web Developer http://www.studioj.net.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[ADMIN] Thread Closed Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I've unsubscribed Ms Fleming - please don't respond to this thread any further. Yes, all reasonable people can unsubscribe all by themselves by visiting: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm When you respond to a digest post, PLEASE trim down to just the part you are responding to warmly, Lea On 11/02/11 4:17 PM, Henry Mencia wrote: Hello C Fleming, If you want to be removed go here Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Cheers, *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Seconded. N -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Bower Sent: 19 December 2010 07:20 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest Hi Mods can you possibly drop emails from list and digest with subject containing out of office or autoreply?? 20-50% (at times) of emails I get from this list are a digest wholly consisting of ringing out of office responses. Pretty standard list filter to apply. And for the people doing this many thanks for the escalation points perhaps I'll try one over the break. :) On 19/12/2010, at 12:58 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Ruth, Jodie jodie.r...@environment.gov.au Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:49:37 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I am out of the office from Friday December 17 2010, returning Tuesday Janua ry 4, 2011. Please direct any web-related questions to web.helpd...@environm ent.gov.au or phone x9883), or Intranet to intranet.helpd...@environment.gov .au (x9770) Kind regards, Jodie Ruth If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments h ave been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e- mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. * From: Laurence-Rogers, Ben ben.laurence-rog...@environment.gov.au Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:51:25 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest Holidays! I will be out of the office till the 5th of Jan - if you need to c ontact me - ben.jordanrog...@gmail.com or 0430472072 If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments h ave been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e- mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. * From: Julien Viard jul...@10collective.com.au Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:52:23 -0800 Subject: Out of Office Re: WSG Digest The 10collective crew are currently out celebrating well earned xmas fun and we will not be back in the office until Monday 20th Dec at 9:00 We will respond to all queries when we return. Merry Christmas Julien * From: Edo Kamal edo.ka...@macquarie.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:53:00 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I am currently out of office. I will be back in the office tomorrow on Mond ay, 20 December 2010. For enquiries please contact: Papinder Hamid (x77756) p: +61 2 8237 7756 e: papinder.ha...@macquarie.com Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. If you received it in error, please tell us immedia tely by return email and delete the document. Macquarie does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files and is not responsible for an y changes made to them by any other person. Macquarie does not warrant or g uarantee that information contained in any email or attached file is free o f viruses, worms, trojan horses or anything else having contaminating or de structive properties and has not been intercepted and interfered with durin g transmission. It is your sole responsibility to protect yourself against such risk and, by opening any email or attached file you agree to assume a ll risks associated with electronic data transmission. Electronic communica tions carried within the Macquarie system may be monitored. Macquarie Funds Group services are provided by Macquarie Bank Limited ABN 46 008 583 542 o r one of its related entities. * From: tee weblis...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 03:20:27 -0800 Subject: disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet I am finally to begin to stop supporting IE6 starts from 2011 as the usage has fallen below 5%. I don't want the IE6 users to see a broken page due to no special treatment made for the browser, rather, I would like them to see an un-styled page as if the style sheet has switch off. Can this be done? Thanks! tee * From: Russ Weakley
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
You know, we're all honestly glad that you've been able to get away for your season's holidays and everytime a post you've linked to comes up we get reminded of it yet again. Please people, change your list settings BEFORE you go away so that we don't all get jealous while we're stuck here slaving away while you're off sucking back a margarita somewhere's warm and sunny. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year... Cheers, Doug Burt - Original Message - From: Nick Brown n...@bosslevelgames.com To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 2:52 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest Seconded. N -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Bower Sent: 19 December 2010 07:20 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest Hi Mods can you possibly drop emails from list and digest with subject containing out of office or autoreply?? 20-50% (at times) of emails I get from this list are a digest wholly consisting of ringing out of office responses. Pretty standard list filter to apply. And for the people doing this many thanks for the escalation points perhaps I'll try one over the break. :) On 19/12/2010, at 12:58 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Ruth, Jodie jodie.r...@environment.gov.au Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:49:37 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I am out of the office from Friday December 17 2010, returning Tuesday Janua ry 4, 2011. Please direct any web-related questions to web.helpd...@environm ent.gov.au or phone x9883), or Intranet to intranet.helpd...@environment.gov .au (x9770) Kind regards, Jodie Ruth If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments h ave been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e- mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. * From: Laurence-Rogers, Ben ben.laurence-rog...@environment.gov.au Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:51:25 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest Holidays! I will be out of the office till the 5th of Jan - if you need to c ontact me - ben.jordanrog...@gmail.com or 0430472072 If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments h ave been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e- mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. * From: Julien Viard jul...@10collective.com.au Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:52:23 -0800 Subject: Out of Office Re: WSG Digest The 10collective crew are currently out celebrating well earned xmas fun and we will not be back in the office until Monday 20th Dec at 9:00 We will respond to all queries when we return. Merry Christmas Julien * From: Edo Kamal edo.ka...@macquarie.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:53:00 +1100 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I am currently out of office. I will be back in the office tomorrow on Mond ay, 20 December 2010. For enquiries please contact: Papinder Hamid (x77756) p: +61 2 8237 7756 e: papinder.ha...@macquarie.com Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. If you received it in error, please tell us immedia tely by return email and delete the document. Macquarie does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files and is not responsible for an y changes made to them by any other person. Macquarie does not warrant or g uarantee that information contained in any email or attached file is free o f viruses, worms, trojan horses or anything else having contaminating or de structive properties and has not been intercepted and interfered with durin g transmission. It is your sole responsibility to protect yourself against such risk and, by opening any email or attached file you agree to assume a ll risks associated with electronic data transmission. Electronic communica tions carried within the Macquarie system may be monitored. Macquarie Funds Group services are provided by Macquarie Bank Limited ABN 46 008 583 542 o r one of its related entities
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
We all go through this every holiday season Nick. Look at the big picture. Russ provides us with a great resource. For free. 1st auto responder message, and you are gone. Guilty until proven guilty. Just look at the first line, or header, then delete. That's the deal. And Russ could charge. He doesn't. Thanks Russ. You are Legend. Oh, and By the way. Lazy listers who reply or forward without truncating the previous 47 or so other lister's reponses are FAR more annoying. And waste far too much bandwidth Think about that Nick. Then look at your email. IMHO, Love and peace to you all, thanks Russ, and Merry Christmas Sincerely. Chris Sent from my iPhone On 19/12/2010, at 6:20 PM, Nicholas Bower n...@petangent.net wrote: Hi Mods can you possibly drop emails from list and digest with subject containing out of office or autoreply?? 20-50% (at times) of emails I get from this list are a digest wholly consisting of ringing out of office responses. Pretty standard list filter to apply. And for the people doing this many thanks for the escalation points perhaps I'll try one over the break. :) On 19/12/2010, at 12:58 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Using IE conditional comments on the html tag, you can target each version of IE. You can does not mean you should... In a comment [1] on forabeautifulweb, Molly Holzschlag says: Please, please dont design for browsers. [1] http://forabeautifulweb.com/blog/about/universal_internet_explorer_6_css/#r7 23 -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (was disallow IE6...)
On 12/20/10 6:57 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: Using IE conditional comments on the html tag, you can target each version of IE. You can does not mean you should... In a comment [1] on forabeautifulweb, Molly Holzschlag says: Please, please don’t design for browsers. [1] http://forabeautifulweb.com/blog/about/universal_internet_explorer_6_css/#r7 Perhaps expectations are too high? I took my first Web class in 2002, and learned both table-based and CSS layouts using IE 5.5 and Netscape 4. CSS rendering in IE was good enough then to convince me that CSS layouts are preferable. And, no, my pages did not look the same in both browsers. But similar, and equally usable, was good enough for me then... and now. Thanks to all for adding useful tools to my toolbox. Season's greetings! Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
I've just resolved the problem. No more discussion on this :) Changing mail lists VERY soon Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 8 Dec 2009, at 22:00, Jen Strickland wrote: David, that ul li business was from the PRE ELEMENT definition from the w3c, not a suggestion for the poem formatting. ~ Jen I can't find a definition of the pre element that includes the example you provided on the w3c site. Can you cite a URI please? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:
Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the accessibility,
but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen readers
but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)
* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities to
the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts
* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.
So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (link
rel=start href=http://www.mysite.com; title=Home Page /link
rel=help ...)
* At least a skip to content link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too, like
those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically ideal
to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..
* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a tabindex
and a title attribute
* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site
Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe most
the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility / help
page.
Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback
So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.
One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of display:none,
to set content outside of the screens but keep it readable by screen
readers.
~~~
A very informative post. Thank you.
FWIW If a skip to main content is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...
Cordially,
David
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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Re: [WSG] skip links)
David Hucklesby さんは書きました:
ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:
Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the
accessibility, but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen
readers but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)
* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities
to the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts
* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.
So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (link
rel=start href=http://www.mysite.com; title=Home Page /link
rel=help ...)
* At least a skip to content link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too,
like those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too
of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically
ideal to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..
* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a
tabindex and a title attribute
* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site
Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe
most the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility /
help page.
Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback
So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.
One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of
display:none, to set content outside of the screens but keep it
readable by screen readers.
~~~
A very informative post. Thank you.
FWIW If a skip to main content is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...
Cordially,
David
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Thanks :-)
It makes sense to set it visible too but it's not easy.
Even now, unfortunately, most of the websites doing this are people who
care about great accessibility and/or usability.
You will deal with any people (clients - marketing - design) saying for
example:
You don't understand me, the users of my website are teenagers who want
to subscribe for a plan and get a mobile,
Famous fact that 15-25 years old people don't really understand
interface, are all in good health, and 100% capabilities. (ironical)
What seems Killing the user experience for advanced users may not be
for the average people.
So I meant in the worst case, better to have hidden skip links that
nothing ;-) (From my point of view)
For your personal use, if you don't care about the design, there are
some fancy plugins like tidy read
http://www.tidyread.com/ which extracts the main article as text so you
won't need or complain about skip links ;-)
Available for Firefox and IE.
What is funny about link in the html head (
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#h-12.3), i never found
how to use it natively with browsers. Can anyone provide informations
about that please ?
Regards
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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the accessibility,
but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen readers but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)
* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities to
the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts
* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.
So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (link
rel=start href=http://www.mysite.com; title=Home Page /link
rel=help ...)
* At least a skip to content link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too, like
those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically ideal
to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..
* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a tabindex
and a title attribute
* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site
Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe most
the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility / help page.
Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback
So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.
One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of display:none,
to set content outside of the screens but keep it readable by screen
readers.
Cheers and enjoy ! ! !
Richard Mather さんは書きました:
Hi Bob,
According to Wikipedia, the UK Government recommends accesskey=s for
skip nav:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_key#Use_of_standard_access_key_mappings
Rich
2009/10/29 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
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WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST
*
From: designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
mailto:desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:36:32 -
Subject: skip links
Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav'
procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about
it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof
approach.
I'd be really grateful . . .
Thanks,
Bob
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Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Just for that I think we should keep him on! -Original Message- From: Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Oh, that is a good point! Let's do!!! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tony McNulty ton...@gmail.com wrote: Just for that I think we should keep him on! -- *From*: Brett Patterson *Date*: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 *To*: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject*: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Thank you for making me laugh on what has been a hitherto unfunny day. Night Cam From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty Sent: 03 August 2009 18:14 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Just for that I think we should keep him on! From: Brett Patterson Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.uk wrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Acually, reading between the lines it looks like he really wants to stay... Bruce - Original Message - From: Tony McNulty To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Just for that I think we should keep him on! -- From: Brett Patterson Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.uk wrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
LET'S DO From: inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Oh, that is a good point! Let's do!!! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tony McNulty ton...@gmail.com wrote: Just for that I think we should keep him on! From: Brett Patterson Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.uk wrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** _ Windows Live Messenger. O melhor em multitarefa. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Enough please! Thanks Russ On 04/08/2009, at 7:11 AM, Patrício dos Santos wrote: LET'S DO From: inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Oh, that is a good point! Let's do!!! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tony McNulty ton...@gmail.com wrote: Just for that I think we should keep him on! From: Brett Patterson Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowandanielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesignsdesi...@tapirdesigns.co.uk wrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines:http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** conheça todo o Windows LiveT. ais do que correio - Windows LiveT oferece mais do que uma pasta A Receber. compartilhe fotos enquanto conversa usando o Windows Live Messenger. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[ADMIN] Thread Closed Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
OK, I've unsubscribed both parties. Thread closed, party over :-P Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core Group Member *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
r...@vanillastorm.co.uk wrote: Thank you for your email. I'm now out of the office until Tuesday 10th March 2009. Who cares? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 1/10/09 8:26 AM, Alan C Whiteman acwhite...@visualis.us wrote: In the end, Flash is not only an obnoxious medium in 90% of its usage ...which is not a problem owing to the platform but rather its authors... (Besides, that's consistent with Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.) it's technically bad for SEO. ...which isn't generally germane to learning management systems, given that their users tend to be inside an intranet to begin with. In any case, Google (among other engines) does in fact index Flash content, and has a list of guidelines for doing so: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/06/improved-flash-indexing.h tml But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? As a proprietary technology, Adobe can have the burden of making its technology better and more compliant. You mean like settling on industry-standard audio and video formats, like MP3 and H.264? We do that. SCORM support for our e-Learning products? That too. Hey, maybe we could open-source the Flex language, including its compiler: http://opensource.adobe.com/flex Whether that adds up to better or not isn't up to me to say. But it's not the same platform it was 5 years ago, to be sure. Unfortunately, it's usually argued over as though it were. Thanks, m *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Alan, Font size: hmmm I use the the '100.01% on the body and them 1em on body/table' settings... What resolution are you using? Image Gallery: Thanks. The CSS for the image gallery was somehow deleted during all of the editing. That is fixed now. Thank you for noticing. Images: Hopefully in the next week or so we will be looking adding images to spruce up the site a bit. New Stuff: I have implemented Dean Edwards IE7 script and have the print and handheld style sheets (only tested under Opera small-screen) done. Thank you for your time guys.. Certainly there must be more... =) Jim __ All for one and one for all. www.ArionsHome.com (Persona BLog) www.FreeXenon.com (Web Site Consulting) www.ItsAllAboutYou-Studio.com (Our Yoga Studio) On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:26, Alan C Whiteman acwhite...@visualis.uswrote: Alan C. Whiteman Visualis Web Design http://visualis.us (562) 305-2862 ___ Your site looks fine in Firefox 3 under Linux. The font could be a tad smaller and then fill extra white space with decorative images. In the Locations page, the images at the bottom may be better arranged to show side by side. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Alan - thanks for being so clear. I completely agree with your feelings on Flash - particularly its use in education (where people are not known for making informed use of the IT tools they have). Adobe's Flash is the MS Powerpoint of the web - it empowers people to say even less in an even more annoying way. It's legitimate usefulness on the web, in my opinion, is mostly limited to providing skins for video players. Regards, Dave On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 08:26 -0800, Alan C Whiteman wrote: James and Matt -- Comments below. Alan C. Whiteman Visualis Web Design http://visualis.us (562) 305-2862 ___ On Saturday 10 January 2009 04:36:54 pm you wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: James O'Neill freexe...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:13:08 -0600 Subject: Site Review: www.ItsAllaboutYou-studio.com Greetings everyone, I just published this site: www.ItsAllAboutYou-Studio.com for my our Yoga Studio to-be and I am curious for a critique. Someone else came up with the design and I hand-coded this in Dreamweaver. Tonight I will be applying Dean Edward's IE7/8, so, hopefully I can get rid of some of those CSS hacks. =) It is still a little bit rough it will work for now... I am also having someone put this up on Wordpress or Drupal. Let me know what you think... This is the first critique I have asked for... I would love to hear any questions, comments, suggestions, or improvements. Your site looks fine in Firefox 3 under Linux. The font could be a tad smaller and then fill extra white space with decorative images. In the Locations page, the images at the bottom may be better arranged to show side by side. *hides in a corner* Thanks all, Jim __ All for one and one for all. www.ArionsHome.com (Persona BLog) www.FreeXenon.com (Web Site Consulting) www.ItsAllAboutYou-Studio.com (Our Yoga Studio) * From: Matt Morgan-May matt...@adobe.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:50:10 -0800 Subject: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT Hi, Excuse me for jumping in here, especially (in this case) as a Flash partisan. But I fail to see how this kind of project can be anything other than a good thing overall. What I don't understand is why people are instantly critical of projects that are actually attempting to increase access to new technology. Actually, people are critical of technologies that obfuscate accessibility. I've heard a constant drumbeat of don't use Flash: it's inaccessible in the years I've been involved in the field. This is because Flash is primarily a medium preferred by advertisers and naive designers to make sites entertaining and end up creating pages that move, dance, pulse, flash, spin, shake, make noise, but do nothing more than create a ghastly annoying experience. In the end, Flash is not only an obnoxious medium in 90% of its usage, it's technically bad for SEO. But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? As a proprietary technology, Adobe can have the burden of making its technology better and more compliant. There are lots of us out there working on improving the accessibility of both existing and future content authored in Flash. There are many arguments to be made for HTML -- I made loads of them while working for W3C, all of which I would stand by today -- but it is not all things to all people. I guess that nobody objects to Flash being a medium by which to build specific applications for education. But this does not require that Flash be accessible or SEO friendly, or splattered all over the web. The fact is that many educators have found that they can use Flash to teach their students effectively. I'm not an educator by profession, but my wife is, and she prefers Flash over HTML/CSS/JS to develop her courseware. This makes perfect sense. I only responded because I do prefer that Flash go away from the web- permanently. If you were to tell her she's wrong, especially before seeing what kind of work she does, I think you'd probably find yourself dodging a couple shelves' worth of education texts. Telling a professional their tools are wrong is not the most endearing of approaches. In my opinion, the best one can do is to learn what they're doing, and offe r ways to make that output more efficient, more inclusive, and easier to produce. Teachers aren't usually web developers, and we shouldn't want them to be. S o I'm all for companies taking on the technical problems so teachers can be teachers, and so on. Thanks,
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Apologies, all, that last message wasn't particularly constructive of me. I'll be more explicit here - my beefs with the use of Flash on anything to do with education (or anywhere else, for that matter) are as follows: 1. Adobe's Flash belongs only to Adobe - there is no Flash open standard like there is for all the other important technologies on the web. Eschewing open standards is poison on the web (although I don't have to tell that to this group). 2. Flash, as a tool, is technically impressive. It's the way that it's used by a naive market that sees it as a hammer, and every problem as a nail that raises issues. Our local tech school turns out hundreds of Flash-only designers every year that the market doesn't need. They have to go *somewhere* - so they tend to freelance and eek out an existence by selling Flash sites to even more naive customers. 3. Flash encourages designers to break web conventions by providing their own buttons, hidden or subtle scroll bars, and in every way customising a site's user interface. In doing this they negate all the learning that web users have done on every other (non Flash) site they've visited. I've visited plenty of Flash sites, the navigation for which probably made sense to the designers, but certainly didn't to me, and I suspect, every other user. 4. Flash navigation is not accessibility friendly, not SEO friendly, and not visible to people who... get this... don't use Flash. I use the handy Flashblocker extension in Firefox, so I can be aware of every instance of Flash on sites I visit. In my opinion, the only thing worse for the web than Flash is Microsoft's also-ran juggernaut: Silverlight. Why not use the open standard of SVG, which is already natively supported (most of it, anyway) in Firefox and Webkit (Safari/Chrome)? The answer is simple: because Microsoft or Adobe can't control it. Kind regards, Dave On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 08:26 -0800, Alan C Whiteman wrote: James and Matt -- Comments below. Alan C. Whiteman Visualis Web Design http://visualis.us (562) 305-2862 ___ -- David Lane = Egressive Ltd = d...@egressive.com = m:+64 21 229 8147 p:+64 3 963 3733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents http://egressive.com we only use open standards: http://w3.org Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Nvu is a great choice. I use Bluefish http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ and Komodo Edit http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_ide/komodo_edit.mhtml, both great, both opensource, both free. Gregorio Espadas gespadas [at] gmail [dot] com On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Delilah Hinman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could also try out Nvu (http://nvu.com), which is a free WYSIWYG editor. Just a thought. *;; Delilah Hinman Viere Media . com http://viemedia.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Justin Sinclair wrote: I'm curious - I've read something similar to the following quote a bunch of times: Abusing em just for italics or strong just for bolding, when no emphasis is intended is the same *sort of* abuse as using tables for layout. It is only abuse of a slightly lesser degree. Are there really torrents of em and strong abuse out in the real world? Most of the presentational uses of strong and em in paragraph text are semantic. People want text bolded in a paragraph to give it emphasis, to make it pop out of the surrounds - to make it strong. This seems to me entirely semantic. Not sure how torrential the abuses are, but the ones I see most often are similar to the situations I see every day when people author documents quickly in Word: instead of defining Heading 1, Heading 2, etc, most people quickly write down their document and simply make the paragraphs that are headings bold, italic, bump up the font size a bit, etc, until it looks like the document they have in mind. Then, they always complain that, once the document gets large, they always have to manually create their tables of content, keep track of page numbers when they copy/paste/rearrange sections, etc. Or, slightly less evil, they do define things as Heading X, but then don't like the style that's assigned and simply use bold/italic and set different fonts/sizes manually, for each occurrence, rather than diving into the CSS-like functions of Word to define the document's overall style. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Out of office until Tuesday 1 April)
Congratulations! ;-) On Mar 27 2008, at 17:19, Mark Wooldridge wrote: Hi, I am currently away from the office and will return on Tuesday as a married man. I will attend to you email at that time. If the matter is urgent, please contact Elise Fitzgerald on 9268 2962 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am contactable on my mobile if my urgent attention is required, 0414 259 797... Note, I will not answer my phone during the ceremony, 4-5pm on Saturday. Regards, Mark. _ This message (including any attachments) is intended solely for the addressee named and may contain confidential and or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of the Ministry of Transport (MoT). Whole or parts of this e-mail may be subject to copyright of the Ministry or third parties. You should only re-transmit, distribute or use the material for commercial purposes if you are authorised to do so. Please visit us http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au or http://www. 131500.info *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
the soundtrack was Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
hi, thanks for the reply but im going go with the a controllable music player that ill do up in flash. The main problem was that he wanted a continuous song going on the site which would have been impossible without frames. But as some members suggested a controllable player is much more standards compliant. Plus I can sell him on giving the users choice of hearing the different djs that play at the club. thanks -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Assuming it's only a soundtrack and doesn't require any controlling, ie: play, pause, volume, etc. then a tiny .swf containing the music track (again set to loop, without control) could sit fairly unobtrusive, and marked up, at the bottom of your HTML. However as has been pointed out, without that control, he could do his reputation more damage than good. A better approach if it were my client would be to persuade them that plugging music (oh so subjective!) into the site for some spurious benefit is better abandoned for a clean standards page. Especially for a nightclub, a good visual website will stay relevant much longer than a hot soundtrack. It's not an area I'm well informed in, but others might be able to answer this, but is it possible to pull in an API from say Last.fm and let users chose their own soundtrack? On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 1:04 PM, jenni provenzano-sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize this is wsg, but why not do the whole site in flash, how many pages could it be! or at least do the frameset banner in flash. - Original Message - From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:20 AM Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:26:32 +1100 Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** best wishes, John Hancock Identity [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +61 2 8012 2967 f: +61 2 9799 6135 * From: Faul, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:26:52 -0400 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I will be out of the office on Monday March 17. If you require immediate assistance, please contact Chris Wightman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and/or 613-580-2424 ext 25123. Thank you. This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. * From: Frederick Matzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:36:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction If you can't talk the guy out of it then try and get him to at least allow the USER to start the music. If not that then I would suggest teh next course is a flash player but at half volume and make SURE that the START and STOP button is easy to find. I wouldn't use a frameset for anything. On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM, John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines:
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 3 Mar 2008, at 11:52, jay wrote: The javascript in the suckerfish menus is there for the sole purpose of providing a hover attribute to the LIs in the navigation in IE: They work just fine in FF and other browsers with it. Providing the user isn't navigating with the keyboard or needs a time delay before the menu vanishes if they are using a mouse. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 29/11/2007, Robert Love [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could use JavaScript to number your paragraphs: http://signified.net/test/ Another alternative is to use disjoint ol elements with start attributes (or alternatively first child li element with value attribute). Both these attributes are deprecated in HTML4.01 but really ought not be since they convey semantics that are inherent to the document structure and aren't purely presentational. It's likely they will be un-deprecated in HTML5. -- David liorean Andersson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Simon Cockayne wrote: Have you come across this flickering problem...is there a better way? Can I remove the DOM elements before they are displayed? Hi Simon you need this... http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/ -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Chris Knowles wrote:
you need this...
http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/
in fact, I incorporated this into my own library - I found the order in
which the code tests the different browsers to matter - I think if I
remember rightly I had an issue with safari on windows if the safari
test came before the IE test. Anyway, this is my slightly changed
version ...
var onDomload = function()
{
/* for Internet Explorer */
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] @*/
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (@_win32)
return function(func)
{
document.write(script id=__ie_onload defer
src=javascript:void(0)\/script);
var script = document.getElementById(__ie_onload);
script.onreadystatechange = function() {
if (this.readyState == complete) {
func(); // call the onload handler
}
};
return;
};
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] @*/
/* for Safari */
if (/WebKit/i.test(navigator.userAgent)) { // sniff
return function(func)
{
var _timer = setInterval(function() {
if (/loaded|complete/.test(document.readyState)) {
func(); // call the onload handler
}
}, 10);
return;
};
}
/* for Mozilla/Opera9 */
if (document.addEventListener) {
return function(func)
{
document.addEventListener(DOMContentLoaded, func, false);
return;
};
}
/* for other browsers */
return function(func)
{
window.onload = func;
};
}();
then use...
onDomload(
function()
{
...
}
);
--
Chris Knowles
***
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RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hi Simon, You're most welcome! With this method, turning off scripting in a browser/user agent lets the nested lists degrade gracefully, and all are exposed. Something else you may find useful - besides the expand/collapse image placed left of an expandable list item , I also place a link state symbol to the right of the link text. The changing and persisting of the symbols is controlled by the anchor link pseudo classes in an external stylesheet. This is to aid hard-of-seeing, color blind and memory disabled users to know if a link is unvisited, visited or being focused on/hovered over. Yes, I've seen flickering occur (on refresh, for example) on pages that have numerous images embedded in them with the img / element, along with the script we're talking about. Please see Chris Knowles message referring to Dean Edwards solution to this. Thanks Chris. I'll email you the package and please do what you like with it, maybe improve it. I'm always willing to learn and progress. Kind regards, Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Cockayne Sent: Monday, 29 October, 2007 13:24 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest Hi Frank, Thanks for feedback. * What happens with CSS/Javascript disabled? WCAG 1.0, rightly, wants graceful degradation of CSS/Javascript is disabled...and so do I. So...*without* using an alternate page...(e.g. a text only ghetto...scary)...I'd like my (X)HTML-only page to give all the menu options. So...I tinkered with: A) Showing *all* options in the (X)HTML content...so they *will* appear expanded and therefore usable with just (X)HTML. B) Then I use external (unobtrusive) Javascript window.onload to remove (via DOM Scripting) all the L2 elements*...this works...but I do see an initial flicker..i.e you can discern the original page momentarily and then the L2 items being removed. *Then I set up eventhandlers for the L1 items...so that L2 is added by DOM scripting. Have you come across this flickering problem...is there a better way? Can I remove the DOM elements before they are displayed? And...yes, please - I'd love to get the zip. I will try to upload an example of my approach and send you the URL one evening this week. Cheers, Simon * From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:06:11 +0200 Subject: RE: [WSG] Toggle L2 menu items (within WCAG) Hi Simon, I’m working on a similar issue using unobtrusive DOM/JavaScript to produce the expand/collapse effect of nested unordered list items in a navigation tree structure. This method (related containers) allows activation by both mouse and keyboard, and the expanded nested list items remain open until collapsed by the user. All DOM/Javascript is external to the structure layer of the web page, along with event handlers and presentation layer styles. Gez Lemon, from The Paciello Group (hi Steve), was instrumental in helping me get the DOM/JavaScript sorted out †he is absolutely brilliant. There is still some work to do on it, but the initial behavior layer is working properly. This is definitely not the only way to accomplish this, but I thought It may add to the suggestions being made by other list members. I can email you a small zipped sample project folder for your inspection and possible use, if you feel this may help. Please let me know? Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
B) Then I use external (unobtrusive) Javascript window.onload to remove (via DOM Scripting) all the L2 elements*...this works...but I do see an initial flicker..i.e you can discern the original page momentarily and then the L2 items being removed. I'd not use the onload approach to hide the nodes, because then it's too late. Instead, use JS to plug the styles that will hide these elements. See the first lines of this script: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_SlideMenu/TJK_SlideMENU.js -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Sorry about that, the validator seemed to suggest that you had some image tags that weren't closed and that you were using instead of amp; but having validated it again, it appears fine. Strange. I've had problems with the WAI validator in Firefox sometimes as well, it seems that locally it has problems but once the page is online I tend to find it works alright. On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dave, First off, thanks for the feedback. I do have the Firefox Web Developer tool bar...for some reason the toolsvalidate local accessibility seems to hang...possibly a firewall sisue..i will check on a different network. RE: http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/index.html, you said... I would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o) ...please can you elaborate? As far as I can tell this page is valid XHMTL STRICT 1.0. as per: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fphd.london.edu%2Fygrushkacockayne%2Findex.htmlcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlinegroup=0 Dave - I really do appreciate your time and trouble. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Simon Cockayne wrote:
Hi Chris,
I'd like bother browser to behave the same.
I can se select() ot maybe change the value of the field to be .
But...the HTML is generated...which means a program change...whereas
the javascript is handcoded...so that is the easier change...that's
all.
Hi Simon
ok, so I take it your problem is that the field is being generated on
the server and inserting unwanted space in the value which then causes
this issue, so ideally you need to remove the whitespace from the value?
If thats the case then really the server side should be changed to not
do it in the first place.
If thats not possible then just use javascript to set the value to an
empty string:
document.getElementById('form1').fld1.value =
If you want the whitespace in there for some reason but want the cursor
in the same place in both browsers then thats a different matter. Maybe
you could clarify this?
--
Chris Knowles
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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 9/30/07, Robert Love [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, change this: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/xml; charset=ISO-8859-1 / to this: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/xml; charset=utf-8 / ISO-8859-1 is a valid charset, why is that change necessary. It is also important that people report the charset they are actually using. Many beginning authors just change the meta content type (or even the HTTP content type) without actually changing the charset they are using. --- Daniel Brumbaugh Keeney Devi Web Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Is there a way to turn this guy off? I just got about 15 of these in my email. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Till Elsner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 1:24 PM Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 00:56 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Hede Mathias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:50:29 +1000 Subject: RE: [WSG] Client - Site Edits [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I would highly recommend wordpress www.wordpress.org it started off as a blogging platform but is excellent to use as a CMS for clients. it's easy to use and intuitive I've used it on a few sites for clients who want to maintain their own content. It's php and mysql based and dead easy to setup... Making the template is easy enough and there are good resources out there.. here's an article on how to use it as a CMS. http://www.siolon.com/2006/utilizing-wordpress-as-a-content- management-s ystem-cms/ mat. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Ross Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 8:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Disclaimer This message has been issued by the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS). The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify DOTARS on (02) 6274-7111
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
There are about 65 so far. The user has been deleted and we are working on the issue. Apologies to all. Russ on 14/7/07 8:16 AM, Nancy Gill at wrote: Is there a way to turn this guy off? I just got about 15 of these in my email. Thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
Thanks Greg, just taking a look at WebGUI, looks really good. On 11/07/07, Greg Hacke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would avoid CMSMadeSimple It's not a bad CMS but _everything_ is after-market and it is very difficult to maintain as standards compliant. I use WebGUI (www.webgui.org) right now for CMS work. It maintains compliance quite well - although its server requirements are a bit higher. Greg Hacke Idle Hands Press :: idlehandspress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: IM greghacke +1.614.388.9106 :: Skype greghacke There is no right. -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 0:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:17:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:
