Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
1. Text of validation errors sometimes overlaps 'error' icon2. When email address and confirm email address fields have invalid entries, error should be 'enter valid email format', not 'values must match'.3. If edentiti is targeting Australian market, I would validate state and postcode as well. 4. Regarding 'Add additional address/email/phone' buttons: 4.1 When clicked, error messages dissappear, only error icons are left. 4.2 Do you really need a postback? 4.3 These buttons make the page too 'heavy'. I would make them looking like your 'Cancel' link. Also, I would not put arrow on them. Arrow makes sense when you move between the pages, like 'Back' and 'Next'. For 'Add address, etc.', it does not make sense because you are staying on the same page. 4.4. If you have 'Add' button, I suggest to have 'Remove' as well. Example, GMail Contacts5. I would not use button graphic to show 'creating edentiti progress'. visitor is used that buttons can be clicked. When click does not produce any result it is a bit frustrating. 6. It is more common to use red * or red tick to show which fields are required. Cheers, Irina.On 3/3/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wantedto get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and overfunctionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on.I'vetested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and somethingmay have been missed.(I know there are bugs in IE7, but I'd rather wait till MS actuallyrelease something that isn't a joke like both betas 1 and 2 were before I bother testing/fixing with it - the one to be released after Mix '06looks slightly more promising)For all you DOM Scripting fans, if you go to step 2 of the Create anEdentiti section, there's a funky form validation script you might want to check out.http://edentiti.com/create/ (click next, to get to step 2)[1] http://edentiti.com/PS. I know the markup is currently XHTML and I'm aware how much of a hypocrite that makes me :-), but, given the time constraints, it was alimitation of the back end solution we had to accept, with plans toconvert it to HTML4 later on.--Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
A quick scan with WebLight turned up a few problems, see the report at http://www.illumit.com/reports/edentiti.html The problem found on https://edentiti.com/about-partners has me baffled. Here's the source: Epicorp - a href=http://www.epicorp.com.au/www.epicorp.com.au// a/p pimg src=/images/epicorp.jpg alt=Epicorp //p It's missing a quote at the end of the href so the img and the link don't work. The baffling part is. It validates! Check out http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fedentiti.com %2Fabout-partnerscharset=%28detect+automatically% 29doctype=Inlinesp=1verbose=1 If you search for epicorp you can see the mangled href and srcless img. Can anyone explain to me why the validator isn't flagging the in the href? Thanks, Steve Ferguson - WebLight Developer http://www.illumit.com/weblight On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:31 AM, Lachlan Hunt wrote: Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted to get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and over functionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on. I've tested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and something may have been missed. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted to get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and over functionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on. I've tested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and something may have been missed. Leaving aside all of the technical issues, the site is innocuous without being understated. But since that is what they want -- good job. drew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 02/03/06, Rob Mientjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks good, everything works. Just not sure about the logo and left chunk of site. Why is that below the header bar? Is that just Safari or was it a conscious decision? Please do explain. Of course it was conscious, but I still don't get it. It's not consistent enough for my tastes. What's the reasoning behind it? -Rob. N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/2/06 10:31 AM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://edentiti.com/ Took _minutes_ for the home page to display, and once it did, it still wasn't finished loading things. Mac OS 10.4.5 Safari 2.0.3 -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Hopkins Programming wrote: Why must I have javascript enabled for the site to be styled? Um... You don't need to, although IE users without script enabled with have a slightly degraded style (not totally unstyled) due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working. Which browser are you testing with? I couldn't replicate this issue at all. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Rob Mientjes wrote: On 02/03/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted to get some feedback... Looks good, everything works. Just not sure about the logo and left chunk of site. Why is that below the header bar? It was decided by the designer and management that they wanted the logo on the homepage to be slightly larger and more prominent as a branding exercise, but to then move it up to the header, out of the way for all the sub pages. Is that just Safari or was it a conscious decision? Concious decision, all browsers. Also, a typo on the about page says About Edentit—think of all the children that will grin gleefully. Couldn't find that typo anywhere. Which page? Give the URI. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Hi Lachlan, Just a design opinion... The main area (#main) looks a little squeezed between the rather heavy right and left sides. Maybe make the h2 bigger and make the intro below strong. (It is, but double strong!!... I don't know if that's why it doesn't come up as strong on my screen (W2K/FF 1.5). Also the #main text is not the same size on all pages! IMO the text would stand out more if you used the darker blue from the logo instead of the paleish blue you use right now. If the text is increased the text in the boxes on the left side drops out of the bg img. Maybe Thierrys TIP would work nice here? Besides that I looks great... and I'm crazy over the form validation. Looks awesome. Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted to get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and over functionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on. I've tested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and something may have been missed. (I know there are bugs in IE7, but I'd rather wait till MS actually release something that isn't a joke like both betas 1 and 2 were before I bother testing/fixing with it - the one to be released after Mix '06 looks slightly more promising) For all you DOM Scripting fans, if you go to step 2 of the Create an Edentiti section, there's a funky form validation script you might want to check out. http://edentiti.com/create/ (click next, to get to step 2) [1] http://edentiti.com/ PS. I know the markup is currently XHTML and I'm aware how much of a hypocrite that makes me :-), but, given the time constraints, it was a limitation of the back end solution we had to accept, with plans to convert it to HTML4 later on. -- Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Kim Kruse - http://www.mouseriders.dk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: [1] http://edentiti.com/ The layout can't cope with any degree of font-resizing in any browser, which I think is a weak point. In my testing, I can resize a substantial amount before seeing any problems occur, and even then it's just slightly misaligned background images which don't affect the readability of the content too much. The text will eventually over lap the columns (especially on the 3-col home page), but it has to get quite big and I'd rather the user disabled stylesheets in such cases or we provided an alternative larger font/single-column stylesheet. Noticed delay (on a slow connection) for those '#secondary-nav' background-images to change on :hover first time. Maybe a single repositioned background would work better..? That was considered and even attempted, but I couldn't find a way to do it in a way that didn't cause other problems without spending too long on the issue. Now that I have more time, I may be able to find a way to do it. PS. I know the markup is currently XHTML and I'm aware how much of a hypocrite that makes me :-)... plans to convert it to HTML4 later on. Not much of an issue :-) However, are there any reasons for not using '(X)HTML Strict' on that page/site? Yes. The JavaScript and CSS were not fully written to deal with real XHTML issues. With the exception of the DOM script from my library which was written to handle both conditions, the rest wasn't designed and tested under XML conditions because my original templates used HTML 4 Strict. It wasn't until the back end developer came along later and was only relatively new to programming JSP/JSF, we ended up having to accept the default output of XHTML in favour of fixing the other more major issues including invalid/ill-formed and inaccessible generated markup. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Tom Livingston wrote: On 3/2/06 10:31 AM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://edentiti.com/ Took _minutes_ for the home page to display, and once it did, it still wasn't finished loading things. Mac OS 10.4.5 Safari 2.0.3 Really? Maybe the server can't cope with the load very well, it's loads just as fast in Safari for me, as it does in everything else. I find IE slightly slower because of the IE7 and the DOM patch scripts initialising, but nothing too serious. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Lachlan Hunt wrote: It was decided by the designer and management that they wanted the logo on the homepage to be slightly larger and more prominent as a branding exercise, but to then move it up to the header, out of the way for all the sub pages. offtopic class=slightly You may want to send them a copy of Steve Krug's Don't Make Me Think. This is a big no no as far as conventions are concerned. My opinion is that it looks like ad clutter below the header. Because of the line used to delineate the navigation it looks like content not a site id and when the page loads I don't know what site I am on and what it is about. There is no tagline to give meaning to the site. I may just leave because it isn't apparent as to what the site purpose is. I think that there is not enough pop (visually) for the calls to action. From a marketing standpoint I find it hard to figure out what I want to do next and there is no lead to the action by color, shape etc. We do use these cues regardless of the content. From a designer and marketer point of view there should be a graphical flow chart with the service explanation that shows what this does. /offtopic The orange color and font-weight of the Edentiti is a safe secure private place for your identification information. is too light and the contrast is low. I think it either needs to be heavier, larger or reverse the colors of the h2 and the above sentence. BTW what is with the nested strong elements? Is this countering the effect in FF? Don't beat yourself up over the XHTML thing -- it is called working in the real world. Jay -- Jay Gilmore Developer / Consultant SmashingRed Web Marketing P] 902.529.0651 E] [EMAIL PROTECTED] U] http://www.smashingred.com B] http://www.smashingred.com/blog ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Kim Kruse wrote: Hi Lachlan, Just a design opinion... Ok, I'll pass it on to the designers. The main area (#main) looks a little squeezed between the rather heavy right and left sides. Maybe make the h2 bigger and I know. It worked better when there was less introductory text on the homepage. make the intro below strong. (It is, but double strong!!... strongimportant text (styled in blue)/strong strongstrongvery important text (styled in orange)/strong/strong It was the most semantically correct way I could find to markup the different levels of importance. There's are other combinations of nested em aswell (see the stylesheet). I don't know if that's why it doesn't come up as strong on my screen (W2K/FF 1.5). Not sure what you mean by that. Also the #main text is not the same size on all pages! It's only different on the homepage (by design), everything else is the same. IMO the text would stand out more if you used the darker blue from the logo instead of the paleish blue you use right now. Ok, I'll let the designer know. If the text is increased the text in the boxes on the left side drops out of the bg img. Maybe Thierrys TIP would work nice here? What's Thierrys TIP? Besides that I looks great... and I'm crazy over the form validation. Looks awesome. Thanks. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Lachlan, It was the most semantically correct way I could find to markup the different levels of importance. There's are other combinations of nested em aswell (see the stylesheet). OK. I just never seen it in use before. I don't know if that's why it doesn't come up as strong on my screen (W2K/FF 1.5). Not sure what you mean by that. I mean that the text wrapped in double strong is not coming up as strong text on my screen (it looks as the text below... but orange) What's Thierrys TIP? http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/tip.asp -- Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Kim Kruse - http://www.mouseriders.dk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 02/03/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was decided by the designer and management that they wanted the logo on the homepage to be slightly larger and more prominent as a branding exercise, but to then move it up to the header, out of the way for all the sub pages. Okay, fair enough. Also, a typo on the about page says About Edentit—think of all the children that will grin gleefully. Couldn't find that typo anywhere. Which page? Give the URI. Sorry, should've been clearer. It's in the title on the About page and some subpages of that as well. -Rob.
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Hi Lachlan, Lachlan Hunt wrote: /Um... You don't need to, although IE users without script enabled with have a slightly degraded style (not totally unstyled) due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working. / Oh dear. Will there be an obituary somewhere? :-) Site looks great overall. Nice and clean, and your form is one of the best I've ever seen. Probably not your responsibility, but the title 'Edentiti' is just AWFUL! I feel sure that the majority of users will pronounce it EDEN TITTY which will produce gales of hysterics from the younger end. Anyone fancy an apple? :-) -- Best Regards, Bob McClelland Cornwall (UK) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Firefox 1.07. The siute stayed unstyled despite 10 or so Ctrl+F5's. --ZacharyOn 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hopkins Programming wrote: Why must I have _javascript_ enabled for the site to be styled?Um... You don't need to, although IE users without script enabled withhave a slightly degraded style (not totally unstyled) due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working.Which browser are you testing with?I couldn't replicate this issue at all.--Lachlan Hunthttp://lachy.id.au/** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**-- == The best way to predict the future is to invent it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/2/06 11:46 AM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/2/06 10:31 AM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://edentiti.com/ Took _minutes_ for the home page to display, and once it did, it still wasn't finished loading things. Mac OS 10.4.5 Safari 2.0.3 Really? Better now. Hiccup, maybe? -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Also, when fixing this typo, you should come up with different page titles as you currently have several pages, including For Organisations, Partners, and Staff board details that all have the same misspelled title. When it comes to search engine optimization, a unique and clearly descriptive title will help in the page rankings. Ruth Rob Mientjes wrote: Also, a typo on the about page says About Edentit—think of all the children that will grin gleefully. Couldn't find that typo anywhere. Which page? Give the URI. Sorry, should've been clearer. It's in the title on the About page and some subpages of that as well. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working Man, when did Dean Edwards die? I know his last post was in December, but I didn't know he was *dead* Maybe MS will make IE7 standards compliant in his honour... ;) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/02/20 06:32 Lachlan Hunt apparently typed:
[someone else] wrote:
Or better: Is there a way to please both groups?
Yes. Don't use small fonts.
Don't blame me, I wasn't the designer, just the implementer so I had to.
But I also wrote somewhere else in that thread that I wouldn't go
below 'small' for main content and that's exactly what it is.
On 06/03/02 10:31 Lachlan Hunt apparently typed:
http://edentiti.com/create/
[1] http://edentiti.com/
http://edentiti.com/style/design.css has '#container {...font-size:
small;}', which makes for a _lot_ of small P text.
Issue #2:
http://juicystudio.com/services/colourcontrast.php tells me 'strong
strong { color: #F90}' on white is inadequate color difference and
brightness, and #069 on white just barely makes it.
I'll let the designer know.
Issue #3:
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/lachh1.jpg
Even at 1280x960 w/ my 20px default there the text for the left images
is obviously not landing where you want. Seems like simple images like
those you could grow with text size to keep things in place.
I'll look into this problem later.
Thanks.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 02/03/06, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it should be *who* will grin gleefully for a start. My apologies for that typo, but it shouldn't detract from the matter at hand. -Rob. N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/3/06 10:24 AM, Rob Mientjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02/03/06, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it should be *who* will grin gleefully for a start. My apologies for that typo, but it shouldn't detract from the matter at hand. -Rob. Partly my fault there Rob - I didn't realise until after I'd posted that your comment wasn't part of the quoted material you were referring to. I wouldn't have commented had I realised. I decided not to post a correction/clarification as it was already off-topic enough (even more off-topic now I guess). Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
I got the same delay already mentioned on the over state of the graphic buttons and I'm on cable (IE/WinXP - SP2/1024x768). I haven't looked at the code, am more of hobbyist/student/lurker on this list. I guess my comments are from the pov of the visitor. Hope they help. An expectation -- when I clicked on About, I expected to see info About the organization, as I had already read about the service on the intro page. I learned nothing new about the organization on that particular page, though there were 2 more pages linked there about staff and partners -- perhaps that's enough though. I wonder, since the text on that About page summarizes what is on the intro page if it would work better as the intro page, It would also possibly fit and the visitor would not have to scroll to read the rest. But just a thought... Eileen Russell http://www.bytedreams.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com Hi Everyone, A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted to get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and over functionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on. I've tested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and something may have been missed. (I know there are bugs in IE7, but I'd rather wait till MS actually release something that isn't a joke like both betas 1 and 2 were before I bother testing/fixing with it - the one to be released after Mix '06 looks slightly more promising) For all you DOM Scripting fans, if you go to step 2 of the Create an Edentiti section, there's a funky form validation script you might want to check out. http://edentiti.com/create/ (click next, to get to step 2) [1] http://edentiti.com/ PS. I know the markup is currently XHTML and I'm aware how much of a hypocrite that makes me :-), but, given the time constraints, it was a limitation of the back end solution we had to accept, with plans to convert it to HTML4 later on. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
I have dialup that connects at 26.400 and it loaded very quickly for me! I was surprised. Nice design too - Original Message - From: Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com Tom Livingston wrote: On 3/2/06 10:31 AM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] http://edentiti.com/ Took _minutes_ for the home page to display, and once it did, it still wasn't finished loading things. Mac OS 10.4.5 Safari 2.0.3 Really? Maybe the server can't cope with the load very well, it's loads just as fast in Safari for me, as it does in everything else. I find IE slightly slower because of the IE7 and the DOM patch scripts initialising, but nothing too serious. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/2006 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
