RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-13 Thread Foskett, Mike
Sorry Adam,

I've been having list submission problems and have lost a few verbose 
responses, and even complete questions.
Consequently all I've posted of late are short responses if any at all.

I'll endeavour to improve replies in future.

Regards

Mike

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Adam Smith
Sent: 12 July 2009 23:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

Mike,

It's messages like this one which make it such a joy to be part of WSG. 
Impeccable information and the perfect answer with just one URL!

On 7/10/2009 at  7:39 pm, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote:
http://websemantics.co.uk/resources/common_symbols/

Mike


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 10 July 2009 10:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Back to basics!

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a
left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?

Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob




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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-13 Thread Adam Smith
No, I was sincere - this is exactly what the web's about - short
messages which give the complete response; we can often get into a
protracted to and fro about the best way to do something - but your
response was spot on - in the words of Dragnet We just deal with the
facts ma'am

 On 7/13/2009 at  7:02 pm, Foskett, Mike
mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote:

Sorry Adam,
 
I’ve been having list submission problems and have lost a few verbose
responses, and even complete questions.
Consequently all I’ve posted of late are short responses if any at
all.
 
I’ll endeavour to improve replies in future.
 
Regards
 
Mike
 

From:li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Adam Smith
Sent: 12 July 2009 23:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Subject: RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

 

Mike,

 

It's messages like this one which make it such a joy to be part of WSG.
Impeccable information and the perfect answer with just one URL!

On 7/10/2009 at  7:39 pm, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com
wrote:

http://websemantics.co.uk/resources/common_symbols/ 

Mike


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 10 July 2009 10:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Subject: [WSG] Back to basics!

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character
code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put
a
left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is
recommended?

Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob




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Tesco.

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Re: RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-13 Thread greg
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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-12 Thread Andrew Cunningham
I just use a modified keyboard layout that allows me to directly type 
necessary punctuation directly form the keyboard. no messing around with 
entities or NCRs.


Andrew

designer wrote:

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character 
code 'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want 
to put a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is 
recommended?


Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob



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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-12 Thread Adam Smith
Mike,
 
It's messages like this one which make it such a joy to be part of WSG. 
Impeccable information and the perfect answer with just one URL!

 On 7/10/2009 at  7:39 pm, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote:
http://websemantics.co.uk/resources/common_symbols/ 

Mike


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 10 July 2009 10:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Subject: [WSG] Back to basics!

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a
left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?

Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob




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Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL
VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31


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Re: [WSG] Back to basics! [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2009-07-12 Thread Andrew . Remely
[snip] Yes! Using UTF-8 in your web pages means NOT having to use HTML
 entities for text such as #241; or ecirc;. The only HTML entities you
 
 need to use in your character data are amp; for '' ampersand, lt; fo
r 
 '' less-than, and gt; for '' greater-than so that those characters 
 don't confuse the HTML parser.


If you’re using a CMS, XML and/or some other sort of phasing exercise care 
with character coding and declarations. I’ve seen some bugs with special 
characters not displaying properly in the final HTML. After much poking 
around it turned out to be a CMS spitting out UTF and a phaser expecting 
ISO characters. Obvious stuff but can be a real pain to diagnose.

Andrew 


You can claim your Medicare rebate at the doctor's. Ask if they offer  Medicare 
electronic claiming  next time you visit. 

__

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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-12 Thread Luke Hoggett
Hi all,

I like http://leftlogic.com/lounge/articles/entity-lookup/ for any entities
that I can't remember, and if you're on a Mac there's a widget, and a plugin
for Firefox

cheers
Luke

2009/7/10 designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk

 Hi all,

 Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
 'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a
 left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?

 Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

 Thanks,

 Bob



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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-11 Thread designer

Hi Paul,

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Novitski p...@juniperwebcraft.com

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Back to basics!


[snip] Yes! Using UTF-8 in your web pages means NOT having to use HTML
entities for text such as #241; or ecirc;. The only HTML entities you 
need to use in your character data are amp; for '' ampersand, lt; for 
'' less-than, and gt; for '' greater-than so that those characters 
don't confuse the HTML parser.


So you are really saying that typing

I have got £100 to spare

is OK, instead of:

#8220;I have got pound;100 to spare#8221;

(just as an example, of course).

Really?

Bob 





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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-11 Thread Paul Novitski

At 7/11/2009 04:44 AM, designer wrote:

So you are really saying that typing

I have got �100 to spare

is OK, instead of:

#8220;I have got pound;100 to spare#8221;



Absolutely. As an example, look at the HTML source for this page:
http://laurietobyedison.com/WOJwords_HanashiroIkuko.asp

Scroll down past the nav menu and you'll see both 
Roman and Japanese text. There are HTML entities 
in the pages of this site that have survived from 
an earlier iteration, but none of the quotes and 
dashes need to be escaped with UTF-8.


Just try it -- it will be a revelation.

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-11 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
 So you are really saying that typing
 I have got £100 to spare
 is OK, instead of:
 #8220;I have got pound;100 to spare#8221;
 (just as an example, of course).
 Really?

Yes, really. HTML as SGML application has so called document character
set, which is UCS
(Universal Character Set,ISO10646). You can think of it as a huge
(tens of thousands) list of
characters where each character is identified by an integer  number,
so called code point. This
list is identical to that of Unicode so if you pick any character in
Unicode and then look up the
character with the same code poin in UCS they will be identical.

Document character set should not be confused with your html file
encoding, which for historical
reasons is specified using charset attribute. Basically encoding
tells how to convert bytes in
your document into characters.

Let's say your have a byte with numerical value 200 (C8 in hex) in
your document. If your
document has encoding ISO885-5 that maps into cyrillic letter Ш. If
your document's encoding
is ISO5589-13 that will be the letter Č. Browsers are supposed to
map known encodings to
document character set, where Ш is code point 1064 (0x0428) and Č
is code point 268 (0x010C).

Let's suppose that for some reason you want to have Ш in your
ISO8859-13 encoded document.
You cannot type it in directly, because this character is not in your
specified character set. Character
entities to rescue—they let you specify character from *HTML document
character set, UCS*.
This is important and some mistakenly think that character entities
map to the current encoding
(I think some old browsers did indeed do that, but that's a bug). So
#200; won't give you Č in
ISO8859-13 and won't give you Ш in ISO8859-5: in both cases you will
get character which has
code point 200 in unicode/ucs—È.

So that's where character entities are useful—you can display UCS
characters which are not available
in your charset. If you are using unicode encoding there is not need
for that, just type the character.

For more info see:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-what-is-encoding
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/charset.html

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-11 Thread tee


On Jul 11, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:


At 7/11/2009 04:44 AM, designer wrote:

So you are really saying that typing

I have got £100 to spare

is OK, instead of:

#8220;I have got pound;100 to spare#8221;



Absolutely.


I have recently started building WordPress sites, found WP auto  
converts them to html entities, I don't see a way to overwrite it.
It also adds p tag and br tag  after label tag when it sees a form  
attribute, and it got the closing tag wrong.


I found all these dictatorial behavior very disturbing given the  
popularity of WordPress. Someone a WP diehard lover told me WordPress  
doesn't dictate how I should do with my markup, and that I can  
overwrite them with a few loops in function.php file. But html markup  
is the most basic of a webpage, I shouldn't need to write a few php  
line to tell a CMS system to do something fundamentally basic. I guess  
it's a so-called benevolent dictatorship.


tee



tee

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[WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread designer

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code 
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a 
left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?


Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob 





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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread Алексей Тен
quot; and #8220; are not the same. quot; is #34;

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 13:08,
designerdesig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote:
 Hi all,

 Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
 'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a
 left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?

 Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

 Thanks,

 Bob



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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread Foskett, Mike
http://websemantics.co.uk/resources/common_symbols/

Mike


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 10 July 2009 10:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Back to basics!

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a
left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is recommended?

Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob




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Registered in England
Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL
VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31


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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread michael.brockington
One of the main points of using Unicode is that you don't need to use
entities, other than for a handful of chars used by HTML.
 
I always keep a good reference handy, so that I can copy and paste
straight into my files, the one I use is:
http://www.calcresult.com/reference/text/unicode-reference.html

But there are plenty of others, though not many are as comprehensive as
that one.

Regards,
Mike


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 10 July 2009 10:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Back to basics!

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put
a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is
recommended?

Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob 




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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread David Dorward

designer wrote:

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character 
code 'usage' that is simple. I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want 
to put a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220; Which is 
recommended?

Neither.

quot; will give you a straight quote (which you don't want).
#8220; is hard to read when you are editing your source (and takes up 7 
bytes).

Just use “, it *is* in UTF-8 after all.

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/


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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread Paul Novitski



Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put
a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is
recommended?

...

One of the main points of using Unicode is that you don't need to use
entities, other than for a handful of chars used by HTML.



Yes! Using UTF-8 in your web pages means NOT having to use HTML 
entities for text such as #241; or ecirc;. The only HTML entities 
you need to use in your character data are amp; for '' ampersand, 
lt; for '' less-than, and gt; for '' greater-than so that those 
characters don't confuse the HTML parser.


To get you started, two basic rules are:

1) Save your HTML/PHP files with UTF-8 character encoding. In many 
text editors there's a character encoding option in the Save As dialog.


2) Declare UTF-8 as the character encoding in the HTML header, e.g.:

meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 /

(XHTML has different character set declarations than HTML.)

For more details see Richard Ishida's W3C Internationalization pages 
at http://www.w3.org/International/


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-19 Thread Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
The voices are telling me that [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on 5/18/2004 8:43 PM:
So, yes, apos; is a better solution than the one I posted.
Except that [censored] MSIE doesn't display the apostrophe.  It gets 
it fine (as slapping ?xml version='1.0'? onto the top and renaming 
it to foo.xml demonstrates), but when it comes to displaying it, 
it can't be bothered.

I toad you I'd subtract from the sum of human knowledge.  Back to lurk.
--
Rev. Bob Bob Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/
Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-18 Thread Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
The voices are telling me that James Ellis said on 5/18/2004 6:06 AM:
I have a feeling apos; won't work in IE for Windows. I've used #039; 
everywhere with success.
Right you are.  You can tell how often I fire MSIE up on this box. 
Slap an XML header on it, rename it foo.xml, and MSIE renders it 
like a charm.

Boy, Microsoft sure pays attention to them DTDs, don't they?  :-(
--
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bob at crispen dot org
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RE: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-18 Thread Mike Pepper
Naughty, Bob, you just stuck it into quirks mode.

I presume you mean the xml prelude?

Mike Pepper
Accessible (but happy cuz the Mrs let him off the leash tonight) Web
Developer
www.seowebsitepromotion.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
Sent: 18 May 2004 23:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] back to basics


The voices are telling me that James Ellis said on 5/18/2004 6:06 AM:

 I have a feeling apos; won't work in IE for Windows. I've used #039;
 everywhere with success.

Right you are.  You can tell how often I fire MSIE up on this box.
Slap an XML header on it, rename it foo.xml, and MSIE renders it
like a charm.

Boy, Microsoft sure pays attention to them DTDs, don't they?  :-(
--
Rev. Bob Bob Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/

Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
Everybody But Me
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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-18 Thread wsg
 Excuse me for possibly subtracting from the sum of human knowledge,
 but I don't recall reading in the original problem statement that it
 had to be a *semantic* single quote, which means the entity apos;
 would do just fine.

My apologies,

I presumed that Justin had already checked the existing XHTML entities and
couldnt find one.

You are correct that apos; is available in XHHTML and is defined as
character 39... though only when you are using ISO Latin character sets.

So, yes, apos; is a better solution than the one I posted.

 Perhaps somebody can tell me whether or not it's an urban legend
 (for once the Microsoft XML documentation is obscure) that putting
 on an XML header automatically gets you apos; regardless of DTD?

Using ?xml version='1.0'? only gets you 3 entities... lt; gt; and amp;

All extra entities must be declared in a DTD but the XHTML DTD declares
alot of them so using a XHTML DTD gets you all the entities you should
need... inlcuding apos;

woric

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[WSG] back to basics

2004-05-17 Thread Justin French
Hi all,
I feel incredibly inept for even asking this question, but I can't find 
a solution.  I have an application that widely uses single quotes for 
tag attributes, which is perfectly valid XHTML, eg:
input type='text' name='surname' value='French' /

However, I can't find a way of escaping a single quote inside the 
attribute, which is causing problems with surnames which have an 
apostrophe, eg:
input type='text' name='surname' value='O'Riley' /

My first reaction (after years of PHP scripting) was to escape it with 
a slash:
input type='text' name='surname' value='O\'Riley' / -- doesn't work.

My next step was to replace it with an entity, but there isn't one 
(apart from #145;, which seemed to cause problems later).

The simple answer seems to be use double quotes for all attributes, so 
that at least the nested double quotes can be replaced with a quot; 
entity, but I can't believe this is my only option -- am I missing 
something??

---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-17 Thread James Ellis
Justin French wrote:
My first reaction (after years of PHP scripting) was to escape it with 
a slash:
input type='text' name='surname' value='O\'Riley' / -- doesn't work.

Adding to this - try htmlspecialchars() in PHP with ENT_QUOTES set - 
this will special character all the XML reserved entities for you. For 
storage in a data store this is more preferable as you don't have to 
worry about escaping quotes in SQL statements etc.
Pushing into PHP land a bit further, you can strstr() the input value to 
ensure you don't double  special the ampersand if that's already been 
added e.g ending up with amp;#039; .

HTH
James
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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-17 Thread wsg
 I can't find a way of escaping a single quote inside the attribute,

 The simple answer seems to be use double quotes for all attributes, so
 that at least the nested double quotes can be replaced with a quot;
 entity, but I can't believe this is my only option -- am I missing
 something??

Hi Justin,

You can either:

a) use the appropriate type of quote (single or double) for each attribute
and not to religously stick to one or the other.

b ) declare an entity in an inline DTD declaration at the top of the
document to signify a single quote.
eg:

?xml version=1.0?

!DOCTYPE html [
 !ENTITY sq #039;
]

You can now refer to single quotes as sq;

woric

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Re: [WSG] back to basics

2004-05-17 Thread Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
The voices are telling me that [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on 5/17/2004 8:26 PM:
I can't find a way of escaping a single quote inside the attribute,
...
b ) declare an entity in an inline DTD declaration at the top of the
document to signify a single quote.
eg:
?xml version=1.0?
!DOCTYPE html [
 !ENTITY sq #039;
]
Excuse me for possibly subtracting from the sum of human knowledge, 
but I don't recall reading in the original problem statement that it 
had to be a *semantic* single quote, which means the entity apos; 
would do just fine.

The DTDs for XHTML at the W3C refer to 
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml-special.ent which includes 
apos;

Perhaps somebody can tell me whether or not it's an urban legend 
(for once the Microsoft XML documentation is obscure) that putting 
on an XML header automatically gets you apos; regardless of DTD?
--
Rev. Bob Bob Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/

Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
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