Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
These solutions are interesting, but I'm only willing to spend time looking at them if: * Users without Javascript but with Flash can still view the movies * I can integrate them with my CMS (Plone) -- I'll need to generate the code dynamically * I don't have to litter the body with Javascript snippets * My page validation doesn't break as a result. I've only given them a cursory glance so far, so with any luck they will fulfil these criteria, although I notice that UFO injects embed tags via Javascript. Thanks for the heads up about these -- if I had the time I'd love to compare all the different methods. Maybe I can after this project's finished ;-) David On 30/06/07, Tate Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29/06/2007, at 6:52 PM, David Little wrote: I see your point here. The only thing I wonder about, and forgive me if I am just in need of more coffee here, but what does a user get if they *choose* not use Flash? Is alt-content handled? It shows my limited knowledge of this area that I wasn't aware that you could put your alternative content within the object tag -- that's going to be very useful. This seems to be the best way forward for me at present with my limited time frame without relying on Javascript libraries. The problem with using the object tag to embed content such as flash presents some problems in IE7. By default, these controls are disabled and users must click the object to activate it. This is the result of a company that held a patent on embedding content, and took MS to court over it. However, the patent doesn't include embedding inline objects (Such as using javascript to embed flash). I'd strongly encourage you to check out SWFObject. It's quick and easy to implement. You can also provide alternate content for users without flash or javascript. That said, the object tag *does* support alternate content as well. SWFobject -- http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ - Tate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- David Little -e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -w: www.littled.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
David Little wrote: These solutions are interesting, but I'm only willing to spend time looking at them if: Seems like you are over-thinking it. swfObject or UFO. I personally prefer the latter mostly due to reasons I stated before (cms... needing access to certain params for dynamic setup.) But both do the job extremely well. For swfObject (I assume UFO too), you can put anything you want in the alt div. Check out this site: http://guilago.se/ View source and find #header... They opted to put a ul menu in the alt div due to the default menu being Flash based. They also you a screen grab of the flash movie... It is pretty seamless... Use the web dev toolbar for FF and turn off JS. Trust us. This is easy. Your page will validate. Move on with your life. :) Cheers, Micky -- Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/1gqpj Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Tate Johnson schreef: On 29/06/2007, at 6:52 PM, David Little wrote: It shows my limited knowledge of this area that I wasn't aware that you could put your alternative content within the object tag -- that's going to be very useful. This seems to be the best way forward for me at present with my limited time frame without relying on Javascript libraries. The problem with using the object tag to embed content such as flash presents some problems in IE7. By default, these controls are disabled and users must click the object to activate it. This is the result of a company that held a patent on embedding content, and took MS to court over it. However, the patent doesn't include embedding inline objects (Such as using javascript to embed flash). I'd strongly encourage you to check out SWFObject. It's quick and easy to implement. You can also provide alternate content for users without flash or javascript. That said, the object tag *does* support alternate content as well. Same for UFO: http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ cheers, Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
On 29/06/2007, at 6:52 PM, David Little wrote: I see your point here. The only thing I wonder about, and forgive me if I am just in need of more coffee here, but what does a user get if they *choose* not use Flash? Is alt-content handled? It shows my limited knowledge of this area that I wasn't aware that you could put your alternative content within the object tag -- that's going to be very useful. This seems to be the best way forward for me at present with my limited time frame without relying on Javascript libraries. The problem with using the object tag to embed content such as flash presents some problems in IE7. By default, these controls are disabled and users must click the object to activate it. This is the result of a company that held a patent on embedding content, and took MS to court over it. However, the patent doesn't include embedding inline objects (Such as using javascript to embed flash). I'd strongly encourage you to check out SWFObject. It's quick and easy to implement. You can also provide alternate content for users without flash or javascript. That said, the object tag *does* support alternate content as well. SWFobject -- http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ - Tate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Hi, Thanks for your replies on this. I'd embedded the movie in the way Tim described -- I was thinking more along the lines of what you would do when you use this method to deal with the inevitable messages you get when you don't have the plugin installed. You'd get round this with a detection script like swfobject which Tom mentions, but this is too JS reliant for me. I'm thinking it will be best to go down the route of embedding Flash (and not QT) using the standards-compliant/conditional comment path. The you need an additional plugin blah blah message isn't as alarming for Flash as it is for Quicktime on some platforms. Plus, the Flash player's a lot more lightweight, so people won't have to worry about also downloading iTunes and other nonsense as they do with QT. I think the answer here may lie in descriptive help text about which plugin you may need rather than anything more complex Thanks again, David On 27/06/07, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/27/07, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! I use this: http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ Not sure about best practice but it's served us well. There is a couple issues, but really what method doesn't have it's issues. I am particularly fond of the way it handles alt-content. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- David Little -e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -w: www.littled.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
I think the answer here may lie in descriptive help text about which plugin you may need rather than anything more complex Thanks again, David I see your point here. The only thing I wonder about, and forgive me if I am just in need of more coffee here, but what does a user get if they *choose* not use Flash? Is alt-content handled? What I like about SWFObject, is the easy way to deliver basically *any* alternate content for a user without Flash. So a user choosing to not use Flash can still have a somewhat rich experience instead of just getting the Download Flash message. Just a thought. And 2ยข... :-P -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Designer wrote: Note the 5th line of code. If a user doesn't have Flash, he/she just sees the equivalent gif. NO pestering. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. :) I personally prefer swfObject. UFO is another (unobtrusive alternative to swfObject): http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ I also like to use Objecty for video and Flash and other stuff: http://wiltgen.net/objecty/ Objecty has some probs when it comes to validation, but it is easy and gets the job done, so I am willing to accept the few validation errors for the sake of ease of use. Good luck! Cheers, Micky -- Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/1gqpj Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Tom Livingston schreef: On 6/27/07, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! I use this: http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ Not sure about best practice but it's served us well. There is a couple issues, but really what method doesn't have it's issues. I am particularly fond of the way it handles alt-content. Similar in use is UFO from Bobby van der Sluis: http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ I prefer it above SWFObject as it seems to be more web standards compliant. Well that's what Bobby says himself anyway ;-) in this A list Apart article about Flash embedding: http://alistapart.com/articles/flashembedcagematch/ cheers, Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Sander Aarts wrote: I prefer it above SWFObject as it seems to be more web standards compliant. Well that's what Bobby says himself anyway ;-) in this A list Apart article about Flash embedding: I like the UFO approach, but I found that it is not the best option if you have to dynamically apply variables (example: width/height) via, for example, a CMS... My last project this was the case... I needed to give the UFO script a dynamic width/height but I did not have access to the head due to the nature of the CMS I was using. swfObject was much more useful in this situation. Cheers, M -- Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/1gqpj Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! At the moment my page embeds a video using the standards compliant method for QT videos as described by Elizabeth Castro in her A List Apart article Bye Bye Embed: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/byebyeembed I then use some unobstrusive javascript to add a show/hide control and to hide the video on load. This means that non-Javascript-enabled browsers will simply get the video without the show / hide controls. This is all fine until you try it in a browser without Quicktime (we may opt for Flash in the end, but the principles I guess will be the same). Then, in IE you get the rather unhelpful Security warning / install software message (well at least that's what you get on the IE6 install running on my virtual PC). Obviously this is not so bad in Firefox where you get the Install missing plugins message. Using a detection script would probably by-pass these issues, but that would then not be in the spirit of progressive enhancement I'm going for. I'd be interested to know how others have approached this kind of issue. As usual I may be missing something blindingly obvious -- this is one of the areas in which my experience is a little limited! Many thanks, David -- David Little *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
I use conditional code on my site - seems the best way to go if you want to follow standards. Personally I just never had the patience to dive into those A List Apart Flash Satay and other methods. The general issue is that IE and all other browsers render Flash differently. I've tested this in Firefox, Opera, Safari, and IE. Anyway, it's something like this: object classid=clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354 width=400 height=300 param name=movie value=movie.swf / param name=wmode value=transparent / param name=quality value=high / !--[if !IE] -- object data=movie.swf width=400 height=300 type=application/x-shockwave-flash param name=quality value=high / param name=wmode value=transparent / /object !-- ![endif]-- /object On 6/27/07, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! At the moment my page embeds a video using the standards compliant method for QT videos as described by Elizabeth Castro in her A List Apart article Bye Bye Embed: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/byebyeembed I then use some unobstrusive javascript to add a show/hide control and to hide the video on load. This means that non-Javascript-enabled browsers will simply get the video without the show / hide controls. This is all fine until you try it in a browser without Quicktime (we may opt for Flash in the end, but the principles I guess will be the same). Then, in IE you get the rather unhelpful Security warning / install software message (well at least that's what you get on the IE6 install running on my virtual PC). Obviously this is not so bad in Firefox where you get the Install missing plugins message. Using a detection script would probably by-pass these issues, but that would then not be in the spirit of progressive enhancement I'm going for. I'd be interested to know how others have approached this kind of issue. As usual I may be missing something blindingly obvious -- this is one of the areas in which my experience is a little limited! Many thanks, David -- David Little *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
On 6/27/07, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! I use this: http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ Not sure about best practice but it's served us well. There is a couple issues, but really what method doesn't have it's issues. I am particularly fond of the way it handles alt-content. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
