RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread Rowan Smith
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Horner Sent: Wednesday, 2 February 2005 5:25 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) That's the relevance to standards - i.e. that if it's only standard if there is a default radio button

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread John Allsopp
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Horner Sent: Wednesday, 2 February 2005 5:25 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) That's the relevance to standards - i.e. that if it's only standard if there is a default radio button and never valid

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread Pringle, Ron
Radio button groups exist for precisely the situation where there is one and only one option that must be chosen. That's how they have always worked. John hit the nail on the head. If you come to a situation where you're attempting to use radio buttons and the above does not apply, then you

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread Mike Foskett
- From: Pringle, Ron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2005 15:00 To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Radio button groups exist for precisely the situation where there is one and only one option that must be chosen. That's

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread Chris W. Parker
John Horner mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:06 PM said: 1) Three radio buttons, one of them pre-selected for the value nothing or incorrect input -- the user is encouraged to select one of the other two and an error given by the script if they don't 2) A

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-02 Thread Chris Blown
On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 21:35, John Allsopp wrote: The UI conventions of the desktop have been around for a generation now. They represent the baseline of user expectations about how an interface should look, and work. Their appearance and behaviour are burned deep into the unconscious of all

[WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Chris W. Parker
Hello, Not sure if this is off topic or not, but let me know if it is. I'm wondering what the suggested default state of a group of radio buttons is? Let me use a current, specific example. In a form I'm writing I have one set of radio buttons. The current options are 'Home', or 'Agency'. The

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Iain Gardiner
February 2005 19:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Hello, Not sure if this is off topic or not, but let me know if it is. I'm wondering what the suggested default state of a group of radio buttons is? Let me use a current, specific example

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Iain Gardiner
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris W. Parker Sent: 01 February 2005 19:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Hello, Not sure if this is off topic or not, but let me know if it is. I'm

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Chris W. Parker
Iain Gardiner mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:04 PM said: Oops, sorry I didn't really read your question thoroughly. Surely an e-mail address will be either a personal or a business address. Personally I'd set the default to personal as this seems to me the

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Rowan Smith
of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Hello, Not sure if this is off topic or not, but let me know if it is. I'm wondering what the suggested default state of a group of radio buttons is? Let me use a current, specific example. In a form I'm writing I have one set of radio buttons

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Mike Kear
" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 01/02/05 20:56I think this is like FAQs - my FAQ is never there. Likewise, pre-set a controlto option A and I'm equally likely to want option B.IMHO pre-setting options for the user (unless they're VE

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Wybrow, Mark
@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 01/02/05 20:56I think this is like FAQs - my FAQ is never there. Likewise, pre-set a controlto option A and I'm equally likely to

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Michael Cordover
@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Date: 01/02/05 20:56 I think this is like FAQs - my FAQ is never there. Likewise, pre-set a control to option A and I'm equally likely to want option B

RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Chris W. Parker
Michael Cordover mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:51 PM said: IIRC though, while RFC 1866 says exactly one the checked attribute is optional in W3C guidelines. [snip] I guess I'm saying that I'd consider this a moot point - check whichever you'd like and the user

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Mike Kear
://afpwebworks.comIndustrial Strength hosting - coldfusion, .asp, .asp.net, php from AUD$15/month - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 01/02/05 22:53I

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Kornel Lesinski
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:24:35 -, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example in a survey, if you indicate any default answers, you are automatically slanting the results, and if someone doesnt make a choice to a question, they wont get a warning popup, instead they will have a selection

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Rowan Smith
Quoting Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are reasons why you might not want to select a 'default' on radio buttons. That's exactly the point Mike. GENDER: (x) Male ( ) Female [ Submit ] I think I'd opt for all unchecked and blame the UA for making the wrong call half of the time

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread John Horner
I'm a bit baffled by this question -- in a way it's not about CSS or HTML or standards at all. If you want to get good data from your form, and you have two radio buttons, then neither should be checked by default. Your CGI script or whatever should do the checking and return the form with you

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Mike Kear
Perhaps, Kornel, but in that case how to you tell the difference between responses where people preferred not to say/didn't know (i.e. an answer to the question), and where people didn't answer the question or didnt notice it?There are cases where a default is a bad thing, and you need to be able

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread John Allsopp
John, If you want to get good data from your form, and you have two radio buttons, then neither should be checked by default. Your CGI script or whatever should do the checking and return the form with you must select a button to proceed. the difference between a radio button set and checkboxes

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread John Horner
At 11:36 AM +1100 2/2/05, John Allsopp wrote: John, the difference between a radio button set and checkboxes is (going way back to Mac UI guidelines in the 80s) is that a radio button group always has a value [snip -- I did know the difference between checkboxes and radio buttons!] If you're

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread John Allsopp
John, [snip -- I did know the difference between checkboxes and radio buttons!] I was almost certain you did :-) If you're saying that a set of radio two or more buttons must always be shown with at least one pre-selected, i.e. as soon as the page loads, one is already selected, then there are

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Chris Blown
I hesitantly suggest a good place for this discussion would be on Justin French's Interface list. http://lists.indent.com.au/mailman/listinfo/interface Cheers Chris Blown ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread Mike Kear
@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "WSG" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 02/02/05 03:56I hesitantly suggest a good place for this discussion would be on JustinFrench's Interface list.http://lists.indent.com.au/mailman/listinfo/interfaceCheersC

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

2005-02-01 Thread John Horner
That's the relevance to standards - i.e. that if it's only standard if there is a default radio button and never valid if none of them are 'checked' then the standard is wrong and ought to be changed. I heartily agree, Mike.