RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-28 Thread Web Man Walking
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check)



Firstly, 
congratulations on putting together a site that is well structured with the 
headings etc. My comments relate more to the usability and accessibility 
aspects. 
:
:

Thank you for your comments 
Graham, some excellent points and ones which I hope to address. I totally agree about images off etc. but this 
is what the client wants? As for the dolls, yup, you don't know what they 
mean until you mouse over, I like that term, mystery meat 
:-)


RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-28 Thread Web Man Walking
I viewed it on a variety of browsers on PC. Technically, I guess, the
client is correct: the text isn't centerd. The entire image is centered in
the window. Since the logo on the left is a drawing, the actual text -
Dragon Way - is visually off to the right. And because of the color
difference between logo and text, the text part seems (to me) to be heavier
and draws my eye more, so it isn't 'centered.' 
 
Sorry, my mistake on #1 not explaining it fully.  The graphic should be
centered :-)

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-27 Thread Vincent Hasselgård
Hi,
If you tell your client to visit www.msn.com with his Mac IE5.2 browser
then he'll get the message that his browser is out of date and that he
should change it to another browser like FireFox or Safari.

So even Microsoft tells Macusers to change to another browser than Internet Explorer. I think that's a good arguement.
Maybe your client would accept a message asking the user to change to a newer browser which supports webstandard?

Personally I think we should design for all browsers on all platforms,
but when even the creators of IE (Microsoft) tells the audience to
change to another one it's time for us to forget about IE for Mac.


Regards
Vincent Hasselgård

On 11/25/05, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true /Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based?
http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htmPoint out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in
sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari orFirefox ;-)Will give it a shot.ThanksE.**The discussion list for
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RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-27 Thread Graham Cook
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check)










 http://test.dragon-way.com/


 Any other comments
would be ace. 



Firstly, congratulations on putting
together a site that is well structured with the headings etc. My comments
relate more to the usability and accessibility aspects. 

 Your splash screen and internal top menu use
the mystery meat paradigm, ie you dont know what the
graphics relate to until you mouse or tab over them. 

 The first doll doesnt show a title
if tabbed, only if moused over

 If images are turned off  as many
users on slower modems do, you cant get past the splash screen

 There is no indication via alt tag or other
that the Dragon Way
logo actually links to a contact page

 My guess would be that many users would click
on the Dragon Way
logo on the splash screen expecting to go to an introductory page about Dragon Way and would
be quite confused when they arrive on the contact page. This should of
course be verified through user testing.

 I would have expected much more detail about
the food. While it is good to know where the restaurants are I would not
be enticed to go there unless I had a reasonably good idea of the menu. It the
menu page intended to be expanded or is the list it???

 The title on the menu page is also
confusing. I clicked on menu, my expectation is to see what dishes are
offered if I go to the restaurant. The page title states Take away and
home delivery menu. Questions will automatically be raised. Is this
different to the restaurant menu? Are the prices different? Where o I find the
restaurant menu? Did I click on the wrong thing? Etc etc. Much better just to
title it Menu then add text if take away and dine-in differ.



Regards

Graham Cook

www.uaoz.com










[WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-26 Thread Web Man Walking
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check)






Hello


I have developed a site for a client and all seems fine, compliant, etc. works ace in IE and FF. I dont have a MAC and client is complaining of:

1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred

2. Homepage - No logo showing

3. Rest of site - Top bar missing

4. Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.)

5. Slow


Can anyone help, take a quick look for me? This is my first post after lurking for a while :-)


http://test.dragon-way.com/


Any other comments would be ace.


Thank you.


Regards


Ed Henderson


Web Man Walking - web design  usability experts

t: 0131 669 8800

m: 0781 253 6964

f: 0797 062 1532

e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN

New technology, old fashioned service





Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-26 Thread Rick Faaberg
On 11/25/05 12:45 AM Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this
out:

 I don¹t have a MAC

I do. And it's Mac, not MAC. Mac is short for Macintosh.

 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred

Seems okay in Safari.
 
 2. Homepage - No logo showing

If that's the green, phallic sort of thing, seems okay in Safari.

 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing

Yeah, there's no top bar in Safari.

 5. Slow 

Slowness wouldn't be OS dependent. Slowness would be bandwidth or server
dependent, or possibly too-big-of-graphics dependent, but those would affect
all platforms. You probably know that. :-)

I didn't find the site slow in Safari on my Mac, fwiw.

Hth

Rick Faaberg

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RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-26 Thread bill
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check)










Hi Ed,

I dont have a Mac so couldnt
look at the site. I did want to offer a comment, though, about point #1 (non-centered
text).



I viewed it on a variety of browsers on PC.
Technically, I guess, the client is correct: the text isnt centerd. The
entire image is centered in the window. Since the logo on the left is a drawing,
the actual text  Dragon Way
 is visually off to the right. And because of the color difference between
logo and text, the text part seems (to me) to be heavier and draws my eye more,
so it isnt centered. 



Id check that out with the client before
pulling much hair out over it :-) Of course, if he means its appearing flush
left or right, that would be another issue. But as someone else already said, youd
know that. 



I wont comment further on the rest of
the site since you already said its working great in the FF and IE; it is
here, too. (And in Op and NS). Generally, I like the site. Its well
built and has a nice fresh feel to it.



HTH,

Bil Scheider











Hello


I
have developed a site for a client and all seems fine, compliant, etc. works
ace in IE and FF. I dont have a MAC and client is complaining of:

1.
Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred 
2.
Homepage - No logo showing 
3.
Rest of site - Top bar missing 
4.
Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.) 
5.
Slow 

Can
anyone help, take a quick look for me? This is my first post after
lurking for a while :-) 

http://test.dragon-way.com/


Any other comments would be ace. 

Thank
you. 

Regards


Ed
Henderson 

Web
Man Walking - web design  usability experts 
t: 0131 669 8800 
m: 0781 253 6964 
f: 0797 062 1532 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

w: web-man-walking.com

a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN

New
technology, old fashioned service 








[WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Web Man Walking
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check)






Hello


I have developed a site for a client and all seems fine, compliant, etc. works ace in IE and FF. I dont have a MAC and client is complaining of:

1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred

2. Homepage - No logo showing

3. Rest of site - Top bar missing

4. Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.)

5. Slow


Can anyone help, take a quick look for me? This is my first post after lurking for a while :-)


http://test.dragon-way.com/


Any other comments would be ace.


Thank you.


Regards


Ed Henderson


Web Man Walking - web design  usability experts

t: 0131 669 8800

m: 0781 253 6964

f: 0797 062 1532

e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

w: web-man-walking.com

a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN

New technology, old fashioned service





Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Rick Faaberg
On 11/25/05 12:45 AM Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this
out:

 I don¹t have a MAC

I do. And it's Mac, not MAC. Mac is short for Macintosh.

 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred

Seems okay in Safari.
 
 2. Homepage - No logo showing

If that's the green, phallic sort of thing, seems okay in Safari.

 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing

Yeah, there's no top bar in Safari.

 5. Slow 

Slowness wouldn't be OS dependent. Slowness would be bandwidth or server
dependent, or possibly too-big-of-graphics dependent, but those would affect
all platforms. You probably know that. :-)

I didn't find the site slow in Safari on my Mac, fwiw.

Hth

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Jon Tan
Dragon Way (Site Check)Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:45 AM, Web Man 
Walking wrote:


I don't have a MAC and client is complaining of:

1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred

Safari - exactly the same as FF/Win
IE5.2/Mac: not present

2. Homepage - No logo showing

Safari - exactly the same as FF/Win
IE5.2/Mac: not present

3. Rest of site - Top bar missing

If, 'top bar' = logo+deities/dolls menu then Safari 1.3.1: fine
IE5.2/Mac: menu and logo masthead nudged flush with the top of the page and 
top border of the content hidden by the masthead/missing

4. Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.)

see 3.

5. Slow

Safari - fine
IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a  minute). Definitely not  a connection issue 
as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when 
rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately.


Jon Tan
www.gr0w.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Web Man Walking
Hello

Thanks for the input...

IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a  minute). Definitely not  a connection
issue 
as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when

rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately.

Thanks Jon.  I thought I was going nuts.  I have had a shot of the site on
clients Mac and it is IE he is using.  It does take over a minute to render
the code on each page!

IE5.2/Mac: not present
Any ideas why these don't display?  I don't have a Mac here?!?!?  Code
validates and seems OK to me?  Am I just missing something obvious?

Regards

Ed Henderson

Web Man Walking - web design  usability experts
t: 0131 669 8800
m: 0781 253 6964
f: 0797 062 1532
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: web-man-walking.com
a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN
New technology, old fashioned service

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Mark Harris

Web Man Walking wrote:

IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a  minute). Definitely not  a connection
issue 
as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when

rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately.


Thanks Jon.  I thought I was going nuts.  I have had a shot of the site on
clients Mac and it is IE he is using.  It does take over a minute to render
the code on each page!

I didn't have  slow loading on the pages. IE was just as fast as Safari 
and Firefox. What I didn't get on the opening page was the logo and 
link, just the dolls.


Safari and FF worked fine.

I checked it with Opera on XP and the dolls became a vertical list down 
the right hand side. Which would indicate something in the CSS, as it's 
an unordered list, but it's late on a Friday night here in NZ and I've 
been out to dinner, so sorry, I can't be more precise.




IE5.2/Mac: not present


Any ideas why these don't display?  I don't have a Mac here?!?!?  Code
validates and seems OK to me?  Am I just missing something obvious?


They did for me, unless the same things are missing for FF and Safari

Try validating the CSS as well as the code. I ran the front page through 
W3C and it validated both, but I got errors in CSS on the subsequent pages.


What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:
meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true /

Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based?

Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in 
sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or 
Firefox ;-)


Cheers and HTH

mark
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RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Web Man Walking
What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:
meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true /
Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based?
http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htm 

Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in 
sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or 
Firefox ;-)

Will give it a shot.

Thanks

E.

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Vincent Hasselgård
Hi,
If you tell your client to visit www.msn.com with his Mac IE5.2 browser
then he'll get the message that his browser is out of date and that he
should change it to another browser like FireFox or Safari.

So even Microsoft tells Macusers to change to another browser than Internet Explorer. I think that's a good arguement.
Maybe your client would accept a message asking the user to change to a newer browser which supports webstandard?

Personally I think we should design for all browsers on all platforms,
but when even the creators of IE (Microsoft) tells the audience to
change to another one it's time for us to forget about IE for Mac.


Regards
Vincent Hasselgård

On 11/25/05, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true /Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based?
http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htmPoint out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in
sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari orFirefox ;-)Will give it a shot.ThanksE.**The discussion list for
http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**


RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Web Man Walking
All sounds good.  Spec does mention IE/FF but client not the best English
speaker and not too attentive to details :-)   Now I have some facts I can
back up my points when we meet to discuss.  Thanks for all your help.  I
hope I can repay the favour one day.

E.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jon Tan
Sent: 25 November 2005 14:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks Jon.  I thought I was going nuts.  I have had a shot of the site on
 clients Mac and it is IE he is using.  It does take over a minute to 
 render
 the code on each page!

yw Ed. Thought so.

 Code
 validates and seems OK to me?  Am I just missing something obvious?

To put it as gently as I can, yes: [1] Personally I put the user agents I 
design to in the job spec/quote so there re no misunderstandings later along

the lines of, 'it doesn't look the sme in NN4 and FF'. [2] Consultation as 
to why supporting a certain agent is being depracated / depreciated if 
needed. E.g. Cost for extra work, audience use percentage etc. [3] Valid 
code doesn not mean the pages will look as you require in the browser. I'd 
suggest development in a standards compliant browser and cross-checking 
cross browser and platform _before_ showing the client in all other browsers

as you go, rather than getting surprises at the end.

OK that doesn't help you right now but as others have suggested, pointing 
out that the IE5.2- audience will make up (I'm guessing based on stats I 
monitor) 1% of the audience might help. The alterntive is (I assume not 
realistic) gettting a Mac, testing and re-writing your code. 

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Lea de Groot

On 25/11/2005, at 9:29 PM, Mark Harris wrote:
Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well  
be in sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using  
Safari or Firefox ;-)


No, IE5.2 is the browser of choice for OS9 (and I assume lower! :( )  
users.

I don't think they have much of an alternative.
Of course, the numbers are probably getting pretty low now...

warmly,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/
Brisbane, Australia

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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Lea de Groot

On 26/11/2005, at 1:25 PM, Mark Harris wrote:
I only started using a Mac on OSX so I didn't know that. Will  
Firefox run on OS9?


Good question.
http://www.mozilla.org/download.html says:
Looking for software for Mac OS 9?
Due to the lack of developer interest, build machines, compilers and  
testing resources, the last Mozilla.org Mac OS 9 build is Mozilla  
1.2.1. 

I don't know how old that is, but its obviously not the current one!

warmly,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/
Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)

2005-11-25 Thread Felix Miata
Lea de Groot wrote:
 
 On 26/11/2005, at 1:25 PM, Mark Harris wrote:

  I only started using a Mac on OSX so I didn't know that. Will
  Firefox run on OS9?
 
 Good question.
 http://www.mozilla.org/download.html says:
 Looking for software for Mac OS 9?
 Due to the lack of developer interest, build machines, compilers and
 testing resources, the last Mozilla.org Mac OS 9 build is Mozilla
 1.2.1. 
 I don't know how old that is, but its obviously not the current one!

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/
says 2 years.
-- 
I can do all things through Him who gives me strength.
Philippians 4:13 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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