[WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
I'm trying to convert a site ( laid out with tables and using points and pixels for font-sizing )into full Web Standards. The oldhome page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/index.htm This uses tables and absolute font sizes. The rebuilt home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm This uses CSS for layout and relative font sizes. I'm very pleased with the conversion which displays perfectly in IE6, Firefox 0.8and Opera 7.23 on Windows as well as (reportedly)in both Safari and Internet Explorer on a Mac.Picture my horror, though, when the site's author reported not being able to read the main navigation menu, a side menu on another upgraded page and image captions on that other upgraded page, all because the font-size was far too small. I'd set the general style sheet's body font-size to 76% and used variousrelative font-sizes to style individual text. Why does it work on every browser I can find except the author's ??? Now I've had to reinstate the old non-standards home page soits author can read the main menu. Under the new design, she had to re-set her IE browser on an Emac to 120% before she could read it !! Seeking an answer I found on The Noodle Incident the following exposition of browsers delivering various font-size settings. I guess it's familiar to CSS gurus: http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/browser.html I simply cound not find any solution there to satisfy the need to set a suitable font-size for the main menu that would display adequately on the author's Emac. I've been reading the transcripts of Web Essentials 04 and after going through Bruce Maguire's presentation, I'm even more desperate to get the site to W3C accessibility level 1 - it MUST use relative not absolute font-sizing, right ?!! Now to the crunch line - I happened to use the Australian Business Register web site this morning http://www.abr.gov.auand thought I'd check out its stylesheet - no stylesheet on the home page, but a _javascript_ browser sniffer. Then I went to the help page http://www.help.abr.gov.au/default.asp?usertype=BCand looked for its stylesheet http://www.help.abr.gov.au/css/ABRHelp.csswhere every size is absolute - either points or pixels- and tables for layout. I thought Australian Government sites were supposed to observe Web Accessibility standards - or have I got it all wrong? I'm still trying to find a way to re-code my upgraded page http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htmto display adequately in its author's browser. Looks like we'll have to truncate the main navigation menu to do it. Perhaps someone out there has a solution to this font-sizing hell I've entered by "upgrading" the site. The author also reports the same problem on a Macromedia site she visited. The author is using an appropriate IE for her Emac. Thanks to the many on this list whose experience has proved invaluable to me in the past 12 months. Best regards John Penlington
Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
I'm trying to convert a site ( laid out with tables and using points and
pixels for font-sizing ) into full Web Standards.
The old home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/index.htm
This uses tables and absolute font sizes.
The rebuilt home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm
This uses CSS for layout and relative font sizes.
I'm very pleased with the conversion which displays perfectly in IE6, Firefox
0.8 and Opera 7.23 on Windows as well as (reportedly) in both Safari and
Internet Explorer on a Mac. Picture my horror, though, when the site's author
reported not being able to read the main navigation menu, a side menu on
another upgraded page and image captions on that other upgraded page, all
because the font-size was far too small.
I'd set the general style sheet's body font-size to 76% and used various
relative font-sizes to style individual text. Why does it work on every
browser I can find except the author's ???
Now I've had to reinstate the old non-standards home page so its author can
read the main menu. Under the new design, she had to re-set her IE browser on
an Emac to 120% before she could read it !!
Seeking an answer I found on The Noodle Incident the following exposition of
browsers delivering various font-size settings. I guess it's familiar to CSS
gurus:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/browser.html
I simply cound not find any solution there to satisfy the need to set a
suitable font-size for the main menu that would display adequately on the
author's Emac.
I've been reading the transcripts of Web Essentials 04 and after going through
Bruce Maguire's presentation, I'm even more desperate to get the site to W3C
accessibility level 1 - it MUST use relative not absolute font-sizing, right
?!!
Now to the crunch line - I happened to use the Australian Business Register
web site this morning http://www.abr.gov.au and thought I'd check out its
stylesheet - no stylesheet on the home page, but a JavaScript browser sniffer.
Then I went to the help page
http://www.help.abr.gov.au/default.asp?usertype=BC and looked for its
stylesheet http://www.help.abr.gov.au/css/ABRHelp.css where every size is
absolute - either points or pixels- and tables for layout.
I thought Australian Government sites were supposed to observe Web
Accessibility standards - or have I got it all wrong?
I'm still trying to find a way to re-code my upgraded page
http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm to display adequately in its
author's browser. Looks like we'll have to truncate the main navigation menu
to do it.
Perhaps someone out there has a solution to this font-sizing hell I've entered
by upgrading the site. The author also reports the same problem on a
Macromedia site she visited. The author is using an appropriate IE for her
Emac.
Thanks to the many on this list whose experience has proved invaluable to me
in the past 12 months.
Best regards
John Penlington
I've been doing this lately, and it seems to work quite consistently across
browsers and platforms.
body {font-size: 62.5%;} Sets base font size to 10px (because 62.5% of 16px
[default browser font size] = 10px)
Then, I do this for example,
#content {font-size: 1.3em;} Sets base font size for Content Div to 13px
(because 1.3 x 10=13)
Now 1.3em=13px, 1.7em=17px -- very easy to see exactly what the font size
is in pixels, while retaining relative sizing.
Just be careful about inheriting font sizes if you put a font in a container
that has a master font size other than 62.5%.
Regards,
Kenneth Feldman
--
KPFdigital.com
Web Design Hosting Made Easy
http://www.KPFdigital.com
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
On 11/10/04 6:38 PM, Kenneth Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm trying to convert a site ( laid out with tables and using points and
pixels for font-sizing ) into full Web Standards.
The old home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/index.htm
This uses tables and absolute font sizes.
The rebuilt home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm
This uses CSS for layout and relative font sizes.
I'm very pleased with the conversion which displays perfectly in IE6, Firefox
0.8 and Opera 7.23 on Windows as well as (reportedly) in both Safari and
Internet Explorer on a Mac. Picture my horror, though, when the site's
author
reported not being able to read the main navigation menu, a side menu on
another upgraded page and image captions on that other upgraded page, all
because the font-size was far too small.
I'd set the general style sheet's body font-size to 76% and used various
relative font-sizes to style individual text. Why does it work on every
browser I can find except the author's ???
Now I've had to reinstate the old non-standards home page so its author can
read the main menu. Under the new design, she had to re-set her IE browser on
an Emac to 120% before she could read it !!
Seeking an answer I found on The Noodle Incident the following exposition of
browsers delivering various font-size settings. I guess it's familiar to CSS
gurus:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/browser.html
I simply cound not find any solution there to satisfy the need to set a
suitable font-size for the main menu that would display adequately on the
author's Emac.
I've been reading the transcripts of Web Essentials 04 and after going
through
Bruce Maguire's presentation, I'm even more desperate to get the site to W3C
accessibility level 1 - it MUST use relative not absolute font-sizing, right
?!!
Now to the crunch line - I happened to use the Australian Business Register
web site this morning http://www.abr.gov.au and thought I'd check out its
stylesheet - no stylesheet on the home page, but a JavaScript browser
sniffer.
Then I went to the help page
http://www.help.abr.gov.au/default.asp?usertype=BC and looked for its
stylesheet http://www.help.abr.gov.au/css/ABRHelp.css where every size is
absolute - either points or pixels- and tables for layout.
I thought Australian Government sites were supposed to observe Web
Accessibility standards - or have I got it all wrong?
I'm still trying to find a way to re-code my upgraded page
http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm to display adequately in its
author's browser. Looks like we'll have to truncate the main navigation menu
to do it.
Perhaps someone out there has a solution to this font-sizing hell I've
entered
by upgrading the site. The author also reports the same problem on a
Macromedia site she visited. The author is using an appropriate IE for her
Emac.
Thanks to the many on this list whose experience has proved invaluable to me
in the past 12 months.
Best regards
John Penlington
I've been doing this lately, and it seems to work quite consistently across
browsers and platforms.
body {font-size: 62.5%;} Sets base font size to 10px (because 62.5% of 16px
[default browser font size] = 10px)
Then, I do this for example,
#content {font-size: 1.3em;} Sets base font size for Content Div to 13px
(because 1.3 x 10=13)
Now 1.3em=13px, 1.7em=17px -- very easy to see exactly what the font size
is in pixels, while retaining relative sizing.
Just be careful about inheriting font sizes if you put a font in a container
that has a master font size other than 62.5%.
Regards,
Kenneth Feldman
Okay, the above is a real interesting way of thinking, but I have a feeling
the problem lies within the author's eMac. So, before changing any code, you
may need to see if the problem is a local one. Your site looks fine on a
very old G3 running OS 9.2.2/IE 5.1.7 and on my G4 OSX IE 5.2. Check the
author's preferences first.
w
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
body {font-size: 62.5%;} Sets base font size to 10px (because 62.5% of 16px
[default browser font size] = 10px)
You hit a sore point with me on this one.
From my point of view that's a pretty extreme setting, and I don't
feel it's user friendly to set a font size of that low a % from what
the user has their font size set at, even when adjusting in all your
other font sizes.
--
Susan R. Grossman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
FWIW, it all looks fine to me on Safari 1.2, IE 5.2.3 and Firefox 0.9.3 under 10.3.6. All my browsers are set to default displays, so there must be something in your author's system which is causig the glitch. My guess is her IE font display Prefs have been changed (Preferences - Language/Fonts - Fonts and Size). If I reduce mine from the 16 pt default to 12 pt, the main nav menu type becomes too small to read. Hope this helps. On Thursday, 11 November 2004 10:26 AM, Kenneth Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to convert a site ( laid out with tables and using points and pixels for font-sizing ) into full Web Standards. The old home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/index.htm This uses tables and absolute font sizes. The rebuilt home page is at http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm This uses CSS for layout and relative font sizes. I'm very pleased with the conversion which displays perfectly in IE6, Firefox 0.8 and Opera 7.23 on Windows as well as (reportedly) in both Safari and Internet Explorer on a Mac. Picture my horror, though, when the site's author reported not being able to read the main navigation menu, a side menu on another upgraded page and image captions on that other upgraded page, all because the font-size was far too small. I'd set the general style sheet's body font-size to 76% and used various relative font-sizes to style individual text. Why does it work on every browser I can find except the author's ??? Now I've had to reinstate the old non-standards home page so its author can read the main menu. Under the new design, she had to re-set her IE browser on an Emac to 120% before she could read it !! Seeking an answer I found on The Noodle Incident the following exposition of browsers delivering various font-size settings. I guess it's familiar to CSS gurus: http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/browser.html I simply cound not find any solution there to satisfy the need to set a suitable font-size for the main menu that would display adequately on the author's Emac. I've been reading the transcripts of Web Essentials 04 and after going through Bruce Maguire's presentation, I'm even more desperate to get the site to W3C accessibility level 1 - it MUST use relative not absolute font-sizing, right ?!! Now to the crunch line - I happened to use the Australian Business Register web site this morning http://www.abr.gov.au and thought I'd check out its stylesheet - no stylesheet on the home page, but a JavaScript browser sniffer. Then I went to the help page http://www.help.abr.gov.au/default.asp?usertype=BC and looked for its stylesheet http://www.help.abr.gov.au/css/ABRHelp.css where every size is absolute - either points or pixels- and tables for layout. I thought Australian Government sites were supposed to observe Web Accessibility standards - or have I got it all wrong? I'm still trying to find a way to re-code my upgraded page http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/default.htm to display adequately in its author's browser. Looks like we'll have to truncate the main navigation menu to do it. Perhaps someone out there has a solution to this font-sizing hell I've entered by upgrading the site. The author also reports the same problem on a Macromedia site she visited. The author is using an appropriate IE for her Emac. Thanks to the many on this list whose experience has proved invaluable to me in the past 12 months. Best regards John Penlington Hmmm, It looks good on my IE 5.1.7 on OSX, and also on IE 5.1.7 on OS 9.2.2 machine. Does this person have an older version of IE? OOOH!, Wait a minute. If they don't have Verdana on their system, then Arial will come up next, and that looks smaller than Verdana. Maybe small(er) enough to make hard to read. Let us know, will you? Regards, Kenneth Feldman -- KPFdigital.com Web Design Hosting Made Easy http://www.KPFdigital.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac
My guess is her IE font display Prefs have been changed (Preferences - Language/Fonts - Fonts and Size). If I reduce mine from the 16 pt default to 12 pt, the main nav menu type becomes too small to read. And there is lies the danger of all this trying to get pages to all look the same in different browsers. http://westciv.com/style_master/house/good_oil/dao/index.html http://westciv.com/style_master/house/good_oil/not_paper/index.html john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
