Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Mike 



Just once should do it..

; )

Robert Turner wrote:

try the following link: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

Axiotis, Vicky wrote:
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks

Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of David Dorward
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 8:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Form question


steve.haffen...@gmail.com wrote:
  

Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
elements from appearing outside of the form tag?



For use in client side scripts IIRC. (HTML 4.01 does have some flaws)

  



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Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Mathew Robertson 

> > Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input 
> > field, as the first child of a form element, disallowed?

> The HTML 4.01 DTD specifies that only block-level elements or script
> elements may appear as the immediate children of the FORM element;
> input elements are inline:
> 
> 
> As to _why_ this is the case, I'm really not sure :-)

:)

Indeed, my question wasn't "where in the spec...".

There is not a single useful reason I can think of as to why an inline element 
cannot be the first child of a form, eg: I would consider this to be a 
perfectly useable snippet:

...

  
  Enable blah

...

both the  and the  are inline elements.  Any other variation like 
's, 's, etc would also be usable.  Thankfully, browsers quite 
happily ignore the spec; this is one area I dont bother fixing when the 
validators tell me that my page is borked.

Basically I think 's should be %flow, just like a .
Mathew Robertson


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Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Robert Turner 

try the following link: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

Axiotis, Vicky wrote:
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks

Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of David Dorward
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 8:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Form question


steve.haffen...@gmail.com wrote:
  

Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
elements from appearing outside of the form tag?



For use in client side scripts IIRC. (HTML 4.01 does have some flaws)

  



--
*Rob Turner*
Founder/Janitor

www. f l e x a d a t a .com <http://flexadata.com>

*+1 415 448 7652*
*+61 7 3040 1337*





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RE: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks
Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Nick Fitzsimons
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 11:54 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009/7/15 Mathew Robertson :
>
> Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input
field, as the first child of a form element, disallowed?
>

The HTML 4.01 DTD specifies that only block-level elements or script
elements may appear as the immediate children of the FORM element;
input elements are inline:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.3>

As to _why_ this is the case, I'm really not sure :-)

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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RE: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks
Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mathew Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 11:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

> > Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> > elements from appearing outside of the form tag?
> >
> 
> HTML 4.01 section 17.2.1: "The elements used to create controls
> generally appear inside a FORM element, but may also appear outside of
> a FORM element declaration when they are used to build user
> interfaces."

Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field,
as the first child of a form element, disallowed?

Mathew Robertson


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RE: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks
Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of David Dorward
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 11:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

Mathew Robertson wrote:

> Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input
field, as
> the first child of a form element, disallowed?

Because it is an %inline element.

The child element(s) of a form must be %block.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.3

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/



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RE: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks
Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Nick Fitzsimons
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 9:27 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009/7/15  :
> Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> elements from appearing outside of the form tag?
>

HTML 4.01 section 17.2.1: "The elements used to create controls
generally appear inside a FORM element, but may also appear outside of
a FORM element declaration when they are used to build user
interfaces."

<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.2.1>

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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RE: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 
Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 
Thanks
Vicky

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of David Dorward
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 8:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Form question


steve.haffen...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> elements from appearing outside of the form tag?

For use in client side scripts IIRC. (HTML 4.01 does have some flaws)

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/



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RE: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Axiotis, Vicky 
Hi 

Please remove me from your email distribution list. I am not sure why I
am being Bc'd into these emails. 

Thanks

Vicky 

 

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of steve.haffen...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 July 2009 8:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Form question

 

Hi.

Apologies if I'm bringing up previously dug over ground or if I'm
missing something so utterly obvious that coffee is about to be
spluttered all over your expansive monitors but...

Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
elements from appearing outside of the form tag?

Thanks

Steve Haffenden 
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Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Nick Fitzsimons 
2009/7/15 Mathew Robertson :
>
> Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field, as 
> the first child of a form element, disallowed?
>

The HTML 4.01 DTD specifies that only block-level elements or script
elements may appear as the immediate children of the FORM element;
input elements are inline:


As to _why_ this is the case, I'm really not sure :-)

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread David Dorward 
Mathew Robertson wrote:

> Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field, as
> the first child of a form element, disallowed?

Because it is an %inline element.

The child element(s) of a form must be %block.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.3

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/



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Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Mathew Robertson 
> > Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> > elements from appearing outside of the form tag?
> >
> 
> HTML 4.01 section 17.2.1: "The elements used to create controls
> generally appear inside a FORM element, but may also appear outside of
> a FORM element declaration when they are used to build user
> interfaces."

Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field, as the 
first child of a form element, disallowed?

Mathew Robertson


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Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread Nick Fitzsimons 
2009/7/15  :
> Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> elements from appearing outside of the form tag?
>

HTML 4.01 section 17.2.1: "The elements used to create controls
generally appear inside a FORM element, but may also appear outside of
a FORM element declaration when they are used to build user
interfaces."



Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread David Dorward 

steve.haffen...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> elements from appearing outside of the form tag?

For use in client side scripts IIRC. (HTML 4.01 does have some flaws)

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/



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[WSG] Form question

2009-07-15 Thread steve . haffenden 

Hi.

Apologies if I'm bringing up previously dug over ground or if I'm missing  
something so utterly obvious that coffee is about to be spluttered all over  
your expansive monitors but...


Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form  
elements from appearing outside of the form tag?


Thanks

Steve Haffenden


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