Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Hi, Try it out by #foo .bar { padding-left:60px; /* For mozilla safari */ #padding-left:65px; /* IE 7 */ _padding-left:60px; /* IE 6 */ } On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Prashant prashantshr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I need to implement a padding-left:65px in IE7. I have following - #foo .bar { padding-left:60px; } I have tried adding following 3 options one at a time immediately after the one above and in all the cases IE7 picks padding-left:60px; *+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px; } *:first-child+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px; } *+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px !important; } Any suggestions how do I fix this issue? Help appreciated. Regards, Prashant *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Hariharan. K Web Designer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Can you not use a conditional? It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. !--[if IE 7] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=iehax.css / ![endif]-- - James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
James Ducker wrote: Can you not use a conditional? Of course one can. It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. I don't agree with that assessment, providing one work a bit on selecting the right CSS hack and don't just use any hack because it seems to work. However, I have problems seeing why one would want/need to serve IE7 a different padding anyway - regardless of method, so I won't discuss hacking-method without seeing the case it is supposed to solve. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Gunlaug Sørtun Sent: Thu 4/2/2009 6:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. I don't agree with that assessment, providing one work a bit on selecting the right CSS hack and don't just use any hack because it seems to work. To my mind, that is the definition of a CSS hack - it is abuse of a bug that is believed to only apply to the required browser(s) There is almost never a direct correlation between the bug and the 'fix' that is being applied. Conditional comments aren't pretty, and generally I try to use CSS that does not require different versions for different browsers, but if nothing else, a conditional comment makes its purpose entirely clear - no chance of a future editor tidying up and breaking the hack. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
I dont understand why anyone needs to hack anything. If you design to web standards and use a logical structure/layout with good use of floats or positioning, you can develop a page/layout that works in all browsers. It usually takes a bit of tweaking but it can be done. I thought this group was discussions of all things relating to standards and not support of people using non-standard ways i.e. hacking/conditional comments. It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. I don't agree with that assessment, providing one work a bit on selecting the right CSS hack and don't just use any hack because it seems to work. To my mind, that is the definition of a CSS hack - it is abuse of a bug that is believed to only apply to the required browser(s) There is almost never a direct correlation between the bug and the 'fix' that is being applied. Conditional comments aren't pretty, and generally I try to use CSS that does not require different versions for different browsers, but if nothing else, a conditional comment makes its purpose entirely clear - no chance of a future editor tidying up and breaking the hack. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote: To my mind, that is the definition of a CSS hack - it is abuse of a bug that is believed to only apply to the required browser(s) Mmm. One exploits a bug to kill/fix another bug, and triggers an unknown number of bugs in various browsers - present and future versions - in the process. Before one knows it one has a complete bug-house :-) There is almost never a direct correlation between the bug and the 'fix' that is being applied. True. Not a problem if the hack is proven to only work in the browser/version that needs the fix, but few test and study progress in standards and implementations in browsers well enough to make sure a hack can't misfire and end up serving the fix to the wrong browser/version. Even many CC for IE are made universal, and end up serving bogus fixes to the wrong versions. Regarding future editors: in my experience there's more of a chance that they'll break the entire work while tidying up, than that they'll break just a hack or two. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Alex wrote: I dont understand why anyone needs to hack anything. If you design to web standards and use a logical structure/layout with good use of floats or positioning, you can develop a page/layout that works in all browsers. It usually takes a bit of tweaking but it can be done. Sure, but such tweaking often ends up on level with what the weakest browser can handle, and thereby holds back better browsers. No progress in that, IMO. When one wants more, one has to aim for what works in better browsers and correct/nudge/fix weaker browsers until they appear to do reasonably well - without disturbing better browsers in the process. Simple tweaking usually falls short then, and one may have to look at other options. I thought this group was discussions of all things relating to standards and not support of people using non-standard ways i.e. hacking/conditional comments. There's nothing much to discuss about existing standards apart from obvious unclear and/or incomplete passages and the occasional typo in same documents. Anyone can read the relevant documents on standards for themselves. Browser-support, or lack of same, for standards, is what most often triggers discussions, and I believe that's the case in this thread too. (Of course: this thread may have been initiated by a designer bug, but there's no proof of that yet.) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Alex [ag...@inactu.co.uk] wrote: I don’t understand why anyone needs to hack anything. If you design to web standards and use a logical structure/layout with good use of floats or positioning, you can develop a page/layout that works in all browsers. It usually takes a bit of tweaking but it can be done. I thought this group was discussions of all things relating to standards and not support of people using non-standard ways i.e. hacking/conditional comments. I agree somewhat to the above comment however there’s bugs that exist in browsers (mainly talking about the evil IE6 here) that you simply have to fix when building websites in the commercial world and its completely out of your control no matter how standards compliant your HTML/CSS is e.g. the IE6 double margin float bug, if left unfixed then expect your clients to complain (if you’re still supporting IE6 that is which most of still are). But if you’re littering your style sheets with heaps and heaps of hacks then you need to improve on your HTML/CSS. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Alex Sent: Friday, 3 April 2009 7:37 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix I dont understand why anyone needs to hack anything. If you design to web standards and use a logical structure/layout with good use of floats or positioning, you can develop a page/layout that works in all browsers. It usually takes a bit of tweaking but it can be done. I thought this group was discussions of all things relating to standards and not support of people using non-standard ways i.e. hacking/conditional comments. It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. I don't agree with that assessment, providing one work a bit on selecting the right CSS hack and don't just use any hack because it seems to work. To my mind, that is the definition of a CSS hack - it is abuse of a bug that is believed to only apply to the required browser(s) There is almost never a direct correlation between the bug and the 'fix' that is being applied. Conditional comments aren't pretty, and generally I try to use CSS that does not require different versions for different browsers, but if nothing else, a conditional comment makes its purpose entirely clear - no chance of a future editor tidying up and breaking the hack. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Thanks everyone. I don't want to use conditionals at this stage as I am new to the system and using conditionals would mean modifying a global template which I am not comfortable doing right now. I have tried the following but for some reason IE7 is picking IE6 hacks only - #foo .bar { padding-left:60px; /* For mozilla safari */ #padding-left:65px; /* IE 7 */ _padding-left:60px; /* IE 6 */ } 2009/4/3 James Ducker james.duc...@gmail.com Can you not use a conditional? It's far more reliable than CSS hacks, which may cause problems in future browsers. !--[if IE 7] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=iehax.css / ![endif]-- - James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Gunlaug wrote: When one wants more, one has to aim for what works in better browsers and correct/nudge/fix weaker browsers until they appear to do reasonably well - without disturbing better browsers in the process. Simple tweaking usually falls short then, and one may have to look at other options. Blimey, you norwegians are a tad opinionated. What does 'one' actually think 'one' is going to acheive in developing for modern browsers over the older ones? You make it sound like modern browsers have a host of features that are going to turn your website/s into an all dancing and singing awe inspiring experience that the older browser is just going to merely mimick after you have bodged it up with hacks and tweaks. The majority of businesses use typically older versions of ie that are typically on XP builds and they 'typically' couldnt give a monkies or even have any knowledge about better or newer browsers. Anyway...thought I would give Gunlaug something to chew on...(cheer up son). - Original Message - From: Gunlaug Sørtun [mailto:gunla...@c2i.net] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:35:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix Alex wrote: I dont understand why anyone needs to hack anything. If you design to web standards and use a logical structure/layout with good use of floats or positioning, you can develop a page/layout that works in all browsers. It usually takes a bit of tweaking but it can be done. Sure, but such tweaking often ends up on level with what the weakest browser can handle, and thereby holds back better browsers. No progress in that, IMO. When one wants more, one has to aim for what works in better browsers and correct/nudge/fix weaker browsers until they appear to do reasonably well - without disturbing better browsers in the process. Simple tweaking usually falls short then, and one may have to look at other options. I thought this group was discussions of all things relating to standards and not support of people using non-standard ways i.e. hacking/conditional comments. There's nothing much to discuss about existing standards apart from obvious unclear and/or incomplete passages and the occasional typo in same documents. Anyone can read the relevant documents on standards for themselves. Browser-support, or lack of same, for standards, is what most often triggers discussions, and I believe that's the case in this thread too. (Of course: this thread may have been initiated by a designer bug, but there's no proof of that yet.) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Prashant wrote: I have tried the following but for some reason IE7 is picking IE6 hacks only - Which means IE7 is in Quirks Mode - on level with IE5.5. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Alex wrote: Blimey, you norwegians are a tad opinionated. Nah, we just just like to be given a valid reason for changing our minds. Comes with the territory - we never take the easy way out since there isn't any in this country :-) What does 'one' actually think 'one' is going to acheive in developing for modern browsers over the older ones? Progress. It may be slow, but it is inevitable and sure better than nothing. You make it sound like modern browsers have a host of features that are going to turn your website/s into an all dancing and singing awe inspiring experience that the older browser is just going to merely mimick after you have bodged it up with hacks and tweaks. Oh, old browsers can't do much dancing and singing no matter what, so 'one' (or another) may as well stop trying so hard. Yes, modern browsers do, obviously, provide a more complete and bug free standard support platform. Dancing and singing is slowly edging its way into standards too, so those who like that kind of stuff may have a go at it - but of course only in the very latest and more experimental browser versions... http://www.css3.info/four-new-w3c-modules/ Broader support may be provided tomorrow, if there's a demand for it. The majority of businesses use typically older versions of ie that are typically on XP builds and they 'typically' couldnt give a monkies or even have any knowledge about better or newer browsers. Thanks for presenting the (very well known) state of the business world - stagnation and regression everywhere. (No wonder the world as a whole is in such a mess right now.) Sorry, but this Norwegian can't see the point in being stuck in the past just because someone else thinks that's good enough. Life's too short, and after having worked in front of these screens for nearly thirty years I'm getting a bit bored and impatient. Anyway...thought I would give Gunlaug something to chew on...(cheer up son). Yummy :-) Got more? regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
On Apr 2, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Sorry, but this Norwegian can't see the point in being stuck in the past just because someone else thinks that's good enough. Life's too short, and after having worked in front of these screens for nearly thirty years I'm getting a bit bored and impatient. + 1 Georg The only good enough is excellent. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Hi, I need to implement a padding-left:65px in IE7. I have following - #foo .bar { padding-left:60px; } I have tried adding following 3 options one at a time immediately after the one above and in all the cases IE7 picks padding-left:60px; *+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px; } *:first-child+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px; } *+html #foo .bar { padding-left:65px !important; } Any suggestions how do I fix this issue? Help appreciated. Regards, Prashant *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 CSS fix
Prashant wrote: I need to implement a padding-left:65px in IE7. Which mode is IE7 in for your document? Hacks like... *:first-child+html #foo .bar {...} ...will only work in IE7 Strict Mode. If it doesn't work in Strict Mode, then something is overruling it. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***