Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
Yeah i understand that, i agree totally.

One member said create a scrolling block with CSS for users that have JS
disabled. I said that wouldn't be ideal. I only want to serve up large
quanitites of images to users that have JS enabled. If i server up large
quantities when JS isn't enabled then that means users who also have CSS
disabled would get a large list of images. Could cause problems.

I would rather serve up 3 images in the block and use JS (and DOM) to add
more images and provide the scroll feature. If JS is disabled, only 3
'recent upload' images get displayed.

But saying that there could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not
CSS, which would still display the long list of images.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 An example? Text-only browsers. No visual styles!

 However, a list of images is exactly what you're serving to the visitor,
 right?

 Ugly, yes.  Semantically correct? Quite.

 Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that plenty of text-only users frequently
 encounter lists of images and wouldn't be thrown off by it.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 Andrew Freedman wrote:

 James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:

 that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a
 list


 You have users that block CSS??

 I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where and
 why you would cater for these visitors?

 Thanks.
 Andrew


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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-30 Thread Andrew Maben


On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:17 AM, James Jeffery wrote:


could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not CSS


I'm having a hard time picturing the circumstances that would prompt  
a user to choose this option - surely, if such a case does indeed  
exist, it must rare as ... (pick your cliche).


Maximising accessibility is a worthy goal, but surely there comes a  
point where the benefit to one audience segment is outweighed by the  
harm to another segment when a feature is disabled. If I were you I  
wouldn't let your concern for this case hold you back from what looks  
to me like a very elegant solution - one that I'm fairly sure I'm  
going to find myself imitating sooner than later, so thanks in advance!


Andrew







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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
Hi Andrew

Dont worry im not considering those rare users :P


On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:17 AM, James Jeffery wrote:

 could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not CSS


 I'm having a hard time picturing the circumstances that would prompt a user
 to choose this option - surely, if such a case does indeed exist, it must
 rare as ... (pick your cliche).

 Maximising accessibility is a worthy goal, but surely there comes a point
 where the benefit to one audience segment is outweighed by the harm to
 another segment when a feature is disabled. If I were you I wouldn't let
 your concern for this case hold you back from what looks to me like a very
 elegant solution - one that I'm fairly sure I'm going to find myself
 imitating sooner than later, so thanks in advance!

 Andrew






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[WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that
you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
you view more.

I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see the
images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
images are selected at random from the new galleries.

If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be
a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array
using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed
if the user has JS disabled.

Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a
similar thing.


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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Maarten Stolte
Hi,

I  recently found this site for that;
http://billwscott.com/carousel/ , which btw is build upon Yahoo's YUI.

Let me know how it fares, as I still have to implement it myself for
my site as well.

regards,

Maarten

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:21 PM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that
 you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
 image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
 you view more.

  I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see
 the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
 first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
 images are selected at random from the new galleries.

 If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be
 a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array
 using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed
 if the user has JS disabled.

 Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a
 similar thing.



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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Joseph Taylor
The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow 
property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through 
them, almost re-creating the effect your going for.


JS would step in to improve...  What your saying is fine too.

Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



James Jeffery wrote:
Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box 
that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 
'latest' image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you 
scoll accross and you view more.


I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still 
see the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with 
display the first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the 
first few. The images are selected at random from the new galleries.


If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There 
will be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images 
into an array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that 
wouldn't get displayed if the user has JS disabled.


Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern 
for a similar thing.




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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without
Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS
will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im
assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the
site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be
needed by them.

Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see.

Thanks for the advice.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow
 property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them,
 almost re-creating the effect your going for.

 JS would step in to improve...  What your saying is fine too.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 James Jeffery wrote:

 Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that
 you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
 image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
 you view more.

 I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see
 the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
 first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
 images are selected at random from the new galleries.

 If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will
 be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an
 array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get
 displayed if the user has JS disabled.

 Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for
 a similar thing.



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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Here is an image of what i mean for everyone else. I have quickly knocked up
a youtube box and placed it where it will go on the site.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3558/newmcvm5.png

Theres actually on 3 images per slide.

Thanks

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without
 Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS
 will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im
 assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the
 site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be
 needed by them.

 Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see.

 Thanks for the advice.


 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow
 property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them,
 almost re-creating the effect your going for.

 JS would step in to improve...  What your saying is fine too.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 James Jeffery wrote:

 Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box
 that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
 image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
 you view more.

 I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see
 the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
 first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
 images are selected at random from the new galleries.

 If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will
 be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an
 array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get
 displayed if the user has JS disabled.

 Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for
 a similar thing.



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RE: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Kepler Gelotte
Hi James,

I think Joe's suggestion is what you are looking for. To be a little more
explicit, use a nested div where the outermost div is just wide enough
to hold 3 images. This will be your viewport. The inner div will hold all
of the images:

style
.viewport
{
width: 300px; /* wide enough to handle 3 images */
overflow: auto;
border: solid #000 1px;
}
.images
{
white-space: nowrap;
}
.prev
{
display: none;
}
.next
{
display: none;
}
/style

/head

body
div class=preva href=javascript:prev(); id=prev_actionimg
src=images/left-arrow alt=scroll left //a/div
div class=viewport
div class=images
img src=images/image1.gif /
img src=images/image2.gif /
...
img src=images/image15.gif /
/div
/div
div class=nexta href=javascript:next(); id=next_actionimg
src=images/right-arrow alt=scroll right //a/div

Then you could use a javascript window.onLoad function to set .viewport's
overflow to hidden and enable the prev and/or next functionality as
appropriate.

Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904




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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Andrew Freedman

James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:

that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list


You have users that block CSS??

I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where and 
why you would cater for these visitors?


Thanks.
Andrew


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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Mark Harris

Andrew Freedman wrote:

James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:
that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a 
list


You have users that block CSS??

I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where and 
why you would cater for these visitors?


Perhaps not block, but who substitute your css for one of their own 
which is better for their browsing experience. It may be a high contrast 
big text version to help with poor vision, it may be something that 
expands the clickable field around an object (by increasing external 
padding - to be honest, I don't even know if that's possible) if they 
have mobility issues, or they may just have a fascination for purple and 
beige as their link colours. I don't think you can ever assume that a 
user is going to use your css as you intended.


I turn off css all the time when I'm testing for accessibility - always 
have.


mark


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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Joseph Taylor

An example? Text-only browsers. No visual styles!

However, a list of images is exactly what you're serving to the visitor, 
right?


Ugly, yes.  Semantically correct? Quite.

Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that plenty of text-only users 
frequently encounter lists of images and wouldn't be thrown off by it.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Andrew Freedman wrote:

James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:
that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a 
list


You have users that block CSS??

I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where 
and why you would cater for these visitors?


Thanks.
Andrew


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Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread Joseph Taylor
I'll chime in to mention that people who intentionally turn off CSS, or 
use their own specific styles to override defaults represent a TINY 
percentage of users. TINY.


For me personally, testing without CSS is a mute point since I spend a 
fair amount of time creating a nice naked document to begin with.


There isn't any other reliable method - especially since we can't 
predict what one of these user-defined stylesheets would contain.


Good point to bring up though.

Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Mark Harris wrote:

Andrew Freedman wrote:

James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:
that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in 
a list


You have users that block CSS??

I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where 
and why you would cater for these visitors?


Perhaps not block, but who substitute your css for one of their own 
which is better for their browsing experience. It may be a high 
contrast big text version to help with poor vision, it may be 
something that expands the clickable field around an object (by 
increasing external padding - to be honest, I don't even know if 
that's possible) if they have mobility issues, or they may just have a 
fascination for purple and beige as their link colours. I don't think 
you can ever assume that a user is going to use your css as you intended.


I turn off css all the time when I'm testing for accessibility - 
always have.


mark


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