[WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Is there a standards compliant way to force NS4 to put some space between items in my html...besides adding otherwise unneeded br /s after images and links, or wrapping them in ps? I've noticed that it does not put any space between divs. Also, is there a way to prevent NS4 from putting big ugly blue borders around images that are links? tia, Carol ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Carol Doersom wrote:
Is there a standards compliant way to force NS4 to put some space
between items in my html...besides adding otherwise unneeded br /s
after images and links, or wrapping them in ps? I've noticed that it
does not put any space between divs.
Unless I'm missing something, it behaves like any other browser. If you have
divsomething/div
divsomething else/div
the spacing in NN4.7 is exactly the same as in Firefox.
In any case, simple css margin seems to work as expected
div { margin-bottom: 2em; }
or whatever.
Also, is there a way to prevent NS4 from putting big ugly blue borders
around images that are links?
If NN4 is still among the browsers you want to support visually, I'd
recommend sticking with HTML4 or XHTML1.0 transitional, and still adding
the border attribute (which is deprecated, but still valid) on the image.
img src=blah.jpg alt=blah border=0 /
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Also, is there a way to prevent NS4 from putting big ugly blue
borders around images that are links?
If NN4 is still among the browsers you want to support visually, I'd
recommend sticking with HTML4 or XHTML1.0 transitional, and still adding
the border attribute (which is deprecated, but still valid) on the image.
img src=blah.jpg alt=blah border=0 /
Or use CSS :-)
Since the border is actually the link color, you can set it to
the page's background color, using ID, CLASS, or even descendent
selectors like this:
div a:link, div a:visited {
color: #fff;
}
/* (tested in NS4.7/W2K) */
You probably only need the `border=0` if the image in question
is over another background image.
YMMV!
--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com
dream. code.
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Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:15:11 -, Carol Doersom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a standards compliant way to force NS4 Please, don't support NN4. It's buggy outdated browser. If you start worrying how your page works in NN4, your code will start decaying. If you hide CSS from it, probably content will be accessible and thats more than enough. Otherwise - give those poor dinosaurs some reason to upgrade. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Kornel Lesinski wrote: Please, don't support NN4. Unfortunately, this type of decision often does not rest with the actual developers, but with management or other stakeholders. I'd say it's a dangerous sweeping statement to make. Otherwise - give those poor dinosaurs some reason to upgrade. Some of those dinosaurs have valid reasons for still using older browsers. If your audience is comprised of those users, it's a bit of an elitist attitude to simply shut them out from any styling. This is a decision that needs to be taken on a site-by-site basis, after careful analysis of the audience. I'm not talking about bending over backwards to make a layout pixel-perfect and exactly the same even in old browsers, but a tad of consideration (especially when it's only a simple fix or slight concession, such as sticking with a transitional DTD) is certainly a better solution, no? -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 18:12:10 -, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kornel Lesinski wrote: Please, don't support NN4. Unfortunately, this type of decision often does not rest with the actual developers, but with management or other stakeholders. True, but management should make educated decision and that means listening to developers. Otherwise - give those poor dinosaurs some reason to upgrade. Some of those dinosaurs have valid reasons for still using older browsers. Like schools or institutions that didn't upgrade their equipment in 10 years? As long as websites are going to work OK on their outdated equipment NN4 will be haunting web developers. Someone must stop that circle. (especially when it's only a simple fix or slight concession, such as sticking with a transitional DTD) is certainly a better solution, no? One small fix provokes another :) I especially don't like what damage NN4 support does to CSS. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
True, but management should make educated decision and that means listening to developers. But a developer who doesn't know how to design for NN4 would be biased, no? IMHO, supporting NN4 is a call for: - bad semantic, - structural hacks, - extra hours spent on the project. Out of these three points, I'd say only the last one would make sense for a client :-) Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Also, is there a way to prevent NS4 from putting big ugly blue borders around images that are links? Or use CSS :-) I am using CSS and just want my pages to degrade nicely in NS4. I'm definitely _not_ going to try to make them match what they look like in up-to-date browsers, even though my boss is my client and she is one of those dinosaurs! I work for a college, and why they continue to distribute NS4 is beyond me, since there are free, good browsers available--which some of us at work download and use. I finally noticed that I had media=all in my head. So that explains why my instructions to apply no borders were being ignored. I've just put 'border:none' inline and voila...that problem is solved. I can't put margins in for NS4, because they'll mess up my page layout in the up-to-date browsers, so I guess I'll use ps or br /s where necessary. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! Carol ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Carol Doersom wrote:
I can't put
margins in for NS4, because they'll mess up my page layout in the
up-to-date browsers, so I guess I'll use ps or br /s where necessary.
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions!
It's really not all that difficult to compensate for NN4. Just use a
linked stylesheet for NN4 and @import url(styles.css); for stylesheets
designed for more modern browsers. The only caveat being that the styles
you use in your linked CSS will need to be overridden in your @imported
stylesheet or they will bleed over to the modern browsers. I generally
complete my global CSS first and then go back and apply some simple
stying in my NN4 stylesheet for the things I've already addressed in the
global. It usually works out quickly and painlessly and while I'm not
trying to make NN4 look and feel like the more modern version, I can
still give it more than a standard markup face lift.
For example--
In the head of your document you would add something like:
link href=css/nn4.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css /
followed by:
style type=text/css
!--
@import url(css/global.css);
--
/style
Your nn4.css would contain:
div {
margin: 10px 0 10px 0;
}
Your global.css would contain:
div {
margin: 0;
}
...or whatever styling is appropriate. If you do find that you have to
add something to your NN4 stylesheet that you don't already address in
your global stylesheet, just sneak back in and add some defaults to your
global.css compensate.
HTH
--
Best regards,
M. Wilson
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Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
Thierry Koblentz wrote: (I believe NN4 doesn't do CSS without JS enabled anyway): Excellent...I wasn't aware of that one; as it sounded a bit strange, I proceeded to test it, and indeed you're right. It must be a bug (as the options for javascript and styles should be completely separate), but a useful one to know for sure. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:17:35 -, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: (I believe NN4 doesn't do CSS without JS enabled anyway): Excellent...I wasn't aware of that one; as it sounded a bit strange, I proceeded to test it, and indeed you're right. It must be a bug (as the options for javascript and styles should be completely separate), but a useful one to know for sure. It's not a bug, it's a feature :) Netscape doesn't have native CSS support. It internally converts CSS to JSSS. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders
but a useful one to know for sure. Since we're talking about NN4... Another interesting thing about this browser is the way it handles the noscript tag. In NN4, a simple noscript tags pair can break apart a whole CSS layout; at other times, it can be a great way to clear floats. Once a designer knows about these things (as using a clear.gif to set backgrounds color) it becomes much easier to support this browser. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
