Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-21 Thread David Dorward


On 20 Mar 2008, at 19:34, Keryx Web wrote:

tee skrev:


I thought fieldset (with legend) are used only for form elements,  
I am curious why you would used it in your right column's content.


A. It is valid. You may use it according to the DTD.


Many things are valid. The DTD is not expressive of semantics.


B. It is being used for grouping of content.


So?

C. I am not a minimalist in interpreting specs. It was developed  
for forms, but I have not seen that you SHOULD NOT use it outside  
of forms, i.e. it is not verboten.


From the spec:
The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related  
controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users  
to understand their purpose while simultaneously facilitating  
tabbing navigation for visual user agents and speech navigation  
for speech-oriented user agents. The proper use of this element  
makes documents more accessible.




Grouping controls and labels. Not anything, not content. Just  
controls and labels.



D. It works and has no negative effects that I am aware of.


It has the same negative effects as using tables for layout.


E. I wanted the effect...



Effects are the realm of CSS and JS, not markup.

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-20 Thread Keryx Web

tee skrev:


I thought fieldset (with legend) are used only for form elements, I am 
curious why you would used it in your right column's content.




A. It is valid. You may use it according to the DTD.

B. It is being used for grouping of content.

C. I am not a minimalist in interpreting specs. It was developed for 
forms, but I have not seen that you SHOULD NOT use it outside of forms, 
i.e. it is not verboten.


D. It works and has no negative effects that I am aware of.

E. I wanted the effect...


Lars Gunter


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[WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread Keryx Web
Now that safari 3.1 is out I was reminded of something I had intended to 
do for a long time. I took this:


fieldset.inforuta {
padding: 20px;
font-size: 90%;
 -moz-border-radius: 15px;
}

And turned it into this:

fieldset.inforuta {
padding: 20px;
font-size: 90%;
 -moz-border-radius: 15px;
 -webkit-border-radius: 15px;
 border-radius: 15px;
}

I.e. I added support for webkit and any future browser that might 
implement CSS 3 rounded corners.


However Safari 3.1 fails at showing any rounded corners at http://keryx.se/

It should be in the two fieldsets in the right column. Anyone who has a 
clue why? I have tested this on both Safari 3.1 on Win XP and Mac. FFox 
handles the code as both in 2.0.12 and the nightly build from yesterday.


I do send my page as application/xhtm+xml to browsers that claim to 
support that MIME-type (mostly for pedagogic reasons, but that's another 
story). Could this be the cause?



Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread cto

Hi Lars,

I ran the css validator on the page you linked to. It shows a number  
of errors. The specific comments of concern are:


Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
Property -webkit-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
Property border-radius doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in  
[css3] :  15px


No ideas to offer, but it's a start.

I confirm that Safari 3.1 does not show rounded corners, while FF did.

Chief Technology Officer
273 Azalea Road, Bldg. 2, Suite 300
Mobile, Alabama, USA, 36609
Tel. +1-251-404-4111
Fax +1-251-344-9545
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Mar 19, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Keryx Web wrote:

Now that safari 3.1 is out I was reminded of something I had  
intended to do for a long time. I took this:


fieldset.inforuta {
   padding: 20px;
   font-size: 90%;
-moz-border-radius: 15px;
}

And turned it into this:

fieldset.inforuta {
   padding: 20px;
   font-size: 90%;
-moz-border-radius: 15px;
-webkit-border-radius: 15px;
border-radius: 15px;
}

I.e. I added support for webkit and any future browser that might  
implement CSS 3 rounded corners.


However Safari 3.1 fails at showing any rounded corners at http://keryx.se/

It should be in the two fieldsets in the right column. Anyone who  
has a clue why? I have tested this on both Safari 3.1 on Win XP and  
Mac. FFox handles the code as both in 2.0.12 and the nightly build  
from yesterday.


I do send my page as application/xhtm+xml to browsers that claim to  
support that MIME-type (mostly for pedagogic reasons, but that's  
another story). Could this be the cause?



Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

Hi Lars,

On 19-Mar-08, at 10:39 PM, Keryx Web wrote:

I.e. I added support for webkit and any future browser that might  
implement CSS 3 rounded corners.


However Safari 3.1 fails at showing any rounded corners at http://keryx.se/


On a test file [1], Safari 3.1 styles fieldsets with rounded borders  
very happily. Perhaps there's something else at play here?


As an aside, using Firebug, I was unable to see the vendor specific  
rule '-webkit-border-radius'. I assume that a browser, and tools  
within a browser based on Gecko will not display webkit-specific rules?


Best,
 - Rahul.

[1] http://rahulgonsalves.com/css-d/safari-test.html


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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

On 19-Mar-08, at 11:26 PM, cto wrote:

I ran the css validator on the page you linked to. It shows a number  
of errors. The specific comments of concern are:


Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
Property -webkit-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
Property border-radius doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in  
[css3] :  15px


According to both the CSS 2.1 and the CSS 3 pages, vendor specific  
extensions were _built_ to use an invalid start character (the dash  
-). This was to avoid vendor specific extensions 'clashing' with  
future 'official' names/properties. As a result, the use of any vendor- 
specific extensions will cause a CSS validator to flag them as errors.


Best,
 - Rahul.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#vendor-keywords
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-syntax/#vendor-specific


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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread Keryx Web

Rahul Gonsalves skrev:

On a test file [1], Safari 3.1 styles fieldsets with rounded borders 
very happily. Perhaps there's something else at play here?


I think I've reduced the problem. There are no rounded corners when the 
fieldset has got a legend element. In my Safari this testcase shows the 
problem.


!DOCTYPE html
html
head
  titleTesting why Webkit does not render rounded corners/title
/head
body
  h1Testing why Webkit does not render rounded corners/h1
  fieldset style=-webkit-border-radius: 7px; border: 2px solid;
  legendThere really should be rounded corners on this 
fieldset!/legend

/fieldset
br
fieldset  style=-webkit-border-radius: 7px; border: 2px solid;
  pThis is another fieldset with no legend. It has rounded 
corners./p

/fieldset
/body
/html

I also found the bug: http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12425


Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread tee

Hi Lars

I thought fieldset (with legend) are used only for form elements, I am  
curious why you would used it in your right column's content.



tee




Lars Gunther





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Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius

2008-03-19 Thread James Ellis
Hi 
The validator is doing the right thing in flagging these rules as either not 
existing or at another version of CSS. Usage of -vendor-specific-css in this 
manner is also perfectly fine when you want to target a feature that has been 
introduced into a rendering engine but has not yet been finalised.

Generally, you will find that this vendor specific stuff is the vendor's 
intepretation of the spec, so don't expect -webkit-border-radius to do the 
same thing as -moz-border-radius or even the w3c border-radius, especially 
for more complex rounded corners involving ellipses.

As an aside, Opera 9.5 while not supporting border-radius will have some nifty 
SVG background mojo that will allow you to do similar stuff:
http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/new-development-techniques-using-opera-k/

Cheers
James

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:56:29 am cto wrote:
 Hi Lars,

 I ran the css validator on the page you linked to. It shows a number
 of errors. The specific comments of concern are:

 Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
 Property -webkit-border-radius doesn't exist :  15px
 Property border-radius doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in
 [css3] :  15px

 No ideas to offer, but it's a start.

 I confirm that Safari 3.1 does not show rounded corners, while FF did.

 Chief Technology Officer
 273 Azalea Road, Bldg. 2, Suite 300
 Mobile, Alabama, USA, 36609
 Tel. +1-251-404-4111
 Fax +1-251-344-9545
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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