Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM
Hi Jan, Maybe strange questions - Do the users of screen readers have flash? (I have no idea for a reason why they shloud) Some screen readers sit on top of browsers like IE. If IE has Flash embedded in it, and the Flash has been made accessible (see http://www.webaim.org/techniques/flash/), then it's exposed to the screen reader. The reason that screen readers should have access to Flash is that developers sometimes put important information in Flash movies, and people using screen readers should have access to it. - And do the screen readers read the elements from the document, even if they're not in DOM? Occasionally. The abbr element isn't included in IE's DOM, but JAWS, which sits on top of IE will expose the abbr element to the visitor depending on the verbosity settings. The reason I ask this - I'm including a flash header via UFO v1.0 [1], based on its presence detection. If positive, the script exchanges (in DOM) an H1 element with the flash object, so I wanted to know, how this can result in various scenarios. UFO uses DOM injection. Screen readers partially support JavaScript, but they don't appear to understand changes to the DOM once the document has loaded. I haven't tested UFO with a screen reader, but it's very unlikely that it will be exposed to screen reader users. Best regards, Gez -- _ Supplement your vitamins http://juicystudio.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM
Hi Jan, On 15/08/05, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some screen readers sit on top of browsers like IE. If IE has Flash embedded in it, and the Flash has been made accessible (see http://www.webaim.org/techniques/flash/), then it's exposed to the screen reader. The reason that screen readers should have access to Flash is that developers sometimes put important information in Flash movies, and people using screen readers should have access to it. I'm aware of all of this, I wasn't just sure whether those visitors usually install the flash plgugin. Sorry, I didn't mean to be patronising. It's an interesting question, but one that I have no data on. I only know two people that use screen readers, and both are very technical. They have Flash installed, but I've no idea if that's typical. I was under the impression that IE comes with the Flash plugin installed by default, but I don't know that for sure. I've never intentionally installed the Flash plugin, but it's there in IE. Although it would be interesting to have data on the numbers of people using assistive technology that also have the Flash plugin installed, if it turned out that only a small percentage installed Flash, it wouldn't detract me from wanting to embed Flash accessibly. Another thing that I'm sure you're aware of is that Flash could never truly be considered accessible, as it relies on Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA) and IE to expose the accessibility features. This is obviously better than nothing at all, but falls a long way short of interoperability. WCAG 2.0 will introduce the concept of a baseline, but if people start defining baselines of, Best viewed in IE on a Windows Operating System, it will be just like 1997 all over again. Best regards, Gez -- _ Supplement your vitamins http://juicystudio.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM
Sorry, I didn't mean to be patronising. Oh, I didn't feel it this way, I really appreciate it, I'm sorry if it sounded ungrateful. I've no idea if that's typical. I was under the impression that IE comes with the Flash plugin installed by default, but I don't know that for sure. I've never intentionally installed the Flash plugin, but it's there in IE. Ah, that's true, or at leas AFAIK. Although it would be interesting to have data on the numbers of people using assistive technology that also have the Flash plugin installed, if it turned out that only a small percentage installed Flash, it wouldn't detract me from wanting to embed Flash accessibly. Well, I don't think it detracts me. I'm only trying to avoid an extra markup. It might sound bad, but I'm replacing an h1 with the flash conent by the UFO. So I just want to avoid the situation, that an user of a screen reader (based on eg. IE, having flash an JS on - passing UFO checks) gets the useful h1 element (for him, when he could not see the visual presentation of its content provided in the flash object) removed and replaced by something he can't read. Thanks for input! -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM
Howdy. Maybe strange questions - Do the users of screen readers have flash? (I have no idea for a reason why they shloud) - And do the screen readers read the elements from the document, even if they're not in DOM? The reason I ask this - I'm including a flash header via UFO v1.0 [1], based on its presence detection. If positive, the script exchanges (in DOM) an H1 element with the flash object, so I wanted to know, how this can result in various scenarios. Thanks. [1] http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
