Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-05 Thread Joe Ortenzi

yes, good point.
I was making a subtle stab at the .htm versus .html discussion in here  
recently.


but given my 'druthers, yes, I'd personally drop all file extensions  
in URLs completely if I could.


Joe

On 05/11/2008, at 4:04 PM, Hassan Schroeder wrote:


Joe Ortenzi wrote:

the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which  
should not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled / 
product_list.html anyway.


Uh, how about more properly '/product_list'  (or '/product-list') --
your customers don't care about the underlying '.xyz' technology, and
`Cool URIs don't change` http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI, or
so I've heard. :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-621-3445   === http://webtuitive.com

 dream.  code.


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Skype:wheelyweb

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RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Chris Vickery
More reasons to keep 'em short:
1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone)
2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where there's a 
line return, so breaks the hyperlink
3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie. 
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole URL is not 
visible.

Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech readers. It's 
about good IA and making everything generally better to get at.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the page the
 content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit sensible
 about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.

of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url
should required to be clicked to be gotten to.

-- 
noon silky
http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/


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RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Bucci, Justin
May also be worth considering the use of an alias URL that redirects the
user to the desired location on the page. They're good for referencing
URLs in non-electronic media as they're more descriptive, easier to
remember, and easier for the user to correctly type into their browser's
address bar.

For example, http://ato.gov.au/ActivityStatements as opposed to
http://ato.gov.au/businesses/pathway.asp?pc=001/003/001.

Both URLs take you to the same location.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Chris Vickery
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 12:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

More reasons to keep 'em short:
1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone) 2. I've seen a few
email or publication programs break URLs where there's a line return, so
breaks the hyperlink 3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers
and marketing ie.
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cage
s_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole URL
is not visible.

Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech readers.
It's about good IA and making everything generally better to get at.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of silky
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the page 
 the content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit 
 sensible about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.

of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url should
required to be clicked to be gotten to.

--
noon silky
http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/


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Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Todd Budnikas
i completely agree with Justin, and all points from just about  
everyone who responded, so thanks. A follow-up question is then do you  
paraphrase an article title into a url, or just chop it?

/music/a-fresh-and-powerful-new-cd-from-the-most-influential/
or
/music/influential-musician-new-cd/

where article title is: A fresh and powerful new CD from the most  
influential musician of our generation



On Nov 4, 2008, at 8:54 PM, Bucci, Justin wrote:

May also be worth considering the use of an alias URL that redirects  
the

user to the desired location on the page. They're good for referencing
URLs in non-electronic media as they're more descriptive, easier to
remember, and easier for the user to correctly type into their  
browser's

address bar.

For example, http://ato.gov.au/ActivityStatements as opposed to
http://ato.gov.au/businesses/pathway.asp?pc=001/003/001.

Both URLs take you to the same location.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Chris Vickery
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 12:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

More reasons to keep 'em short:
1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone) 2. I've seen a  
few
email or publication programs break URLs where there's a line  
return, so

breaks the hyperlink 3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers
and marketing ie.
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cage
s_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole URL
is not visible.




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Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Bruce


From: silky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]


On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
i completely agree with Justin, and all points from just about everyone 
who

responded, so thanks. A follow-up question is then do you paraphrase an
article title into a url, or just chop it?
/music/a-fresh-and-powerful-new-cd-from-the-most-influential/
or
/music/influential-musician-new-cd/

where article title is: A fresh and powerful new CD from the most
influential musician of our generation





Thats a sentence, not a title ;)
Powerful New CD would suffice.

But changing a lot of existing titles would be a pain with all the redirects 
needed...


Bruce
bkdesign solutions 




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Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Joe Ortenzi

Sorry for being a bit off topic but.

I think you missed a point about friendly URLs
For each of these examples you state, you really don't want to burden  
your marketing team with urls like your example:

www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm

when any sensible marketer will tell you:
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products

is where you should point them, and then let them find cages in one  
click on that page., maybe even at

www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products/cages

the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should  
not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled / 
product_list.html anyway.


BAD IA IMHO

Joe


OK, in marketing terms you can easily create your own TinyURL by  
redirecting vimportant traffic through a rewrite.



On 05/11/2008, at 12:40 PM, Chris Vickery wrote:


More reasons to keep 'em short:
1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone)
2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where  
there's a line return, so breaks the hyperlink

3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie. 
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole  
URL is not visible.


Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech  
readers. It's about good IA and making everything generally better  
to get at.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky

Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the  
page the
content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit  
sensible

about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.


of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url
should required to be clicked to be gotten to.

--
noon silky
http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/


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Skype:wheelyweb

http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401



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RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Ashley Butler
Please stop emailing me!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 3:30 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Sorry for being a bit off topic but.

I think you missed a point about friendly URLs
For each of these examples you state, you really don't want to burden  
your marketing team with urls like your example:
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an
d_ornaments/full_product_list.htm

when any sensible marketer will tell you:
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products

is where you should point them, and then let them find cages in one  
click on that page., maybe even at
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products/cages

the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should  
not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled / 
product_list.html anyway.

BAD IA IMHO

Joe


OK, in marketing terms you can easily create your own TinyURL by  
redirecting vimportant traffic through a rewrite.


On 05/11/2008, at 12:40 PM, Chris Vickery wrote:

 More reasons to keep 'em short:
 1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone)
 2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where  
 there's a line return, so breaks the hyperlink
 3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie.
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an
d_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
 4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole  
 URL is not visible.

 Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech  
 readers. It's about good IA and making everything generally better  
 to get at.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices

 On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the  
 page the
 content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit  
 sensible
 about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.

 of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url
 should required to be clicked to be gotten to.

 -- 
 noon silky
 http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
 http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/


 ***
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Skype:wheelyweb

http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401



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Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Brett Patterson
What?

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Ashley Butler 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Please stop emailing me!

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 3:30 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

 Sorry for being a bit off topic but.

 I think you missed a point about friendly URLs
 For each of these examples you state, you really don't want to burden
 your marketing team with urls like your example:

 www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an
 d_ornaments/full_product_list.htmhttp://www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm

 when any sensible marketer will tell you:
 www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products

 is where you should point them, and then let them find cages in one
 click on that page., maybe even at
 www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products/cages

 the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should
 not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled /
 product_list.html anyway.

 BAD IA IMHO

 Joe


 OK, in marketing terms you can easily create your own TinyURL by
 redirecting vimportant traffic through a rewrite.


 On 05/11/2008, at 12:40 PM, Chris Vickery wrote:

  More reasons to keep 'em short:
  1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone)
  2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where
  there's a line return, so breaks the hyperlink
  3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie.

 www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_an
 d_ornaments/full_product_list.htmhttp://www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
  4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole
  URL is not visible.
 
  Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech
  readers. It's about good IA and making everything generally better
  to get at.
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
  Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices
 
  On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the
  page the
  content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit
  sensible
  about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.
 
  of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url
  should required to be clicked to be gotten to.
 
  --
  noon silky
  http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/
 
 
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  error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 +61 (0)434 047 804
 http://www.typingthevoid.com
 http://twitter.com/wheelyweb
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jortenzi
 Skype:wheelyweb

 http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401



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 Help

RE: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Chris Vickery
Yes o.O
...aren't we saying the same thing? Keep the url short and to the point.

Sorry... I exaggerated the example URL to illustrate the point.

Ashley try the unsubscribe if you don't want to get emails... 
http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi
Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 3:30 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Sorry for being a bit off topic but.

I think you missed a point about friendly URLs
For each of these examples you state, you really don't want to burden  
your marketing team with urls like your example:
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm

when any sensible marketer will tell you:
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products

is where you should point them, and then let them find cages in one  
click on that page., maybe even at
www.chrisandhispetstore.com/products/cages

the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should  
not bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled / 
product_list.html anyway.

BAD IA IMHO

Joe


OK, in marketing terms you can easily create your own TinyURL by  
redirecting vimportant traffic through a rewrite.


On 05/11/2008, at 12:40 PM, Chris Vickery wrote:

 More reasons to keep 'em short:
 1. Makes it easy to quote URL (maybe over the phone)
 2. I've seen a few email or publication programs break URLs where  
 there's a line return, so breaks the hyperlink
 3. Makes layout difficult for desktop publishers and marketing ie. 
 www.chrisandhispetstore.com/what_i_keep_in_stock/supplies_for_birds/cages_and_ornaments/full_product_list.htm
 4. If it's longer than the width of the address bar then the whole  
 URL is not visible.

 Accessibility isn't just about clean code and text to speech  
 readers. It's about good IA and making everything generally better  
 to get at.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 November 2008 11:28 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] URL length best practices

 On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 other than making sense and having a strong  connection with the  
 page the
 content is on, there is no direct reason, other than being a bit  
 sensible
 about it, I wouldn't advise testing out the 2048 characters.

 of course there is a good reason: so it's typable. not every url
 should required to be clicked to be gotten to.

 -- 
 noon silky
 http://skillsforvilla.tumblr.com/
 http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/


 ***
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Joseph Ortenzi
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+61 (0)434 047 804
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http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401



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Re: [WSG] URL length best practices [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-11-04 Thread Hassan Schroeder

Joe Ortenzi wrote:

the long and friendly URL is really for the final page, which should not 
bury a full product list so deeply and should be titled 
/product_list.html anyway.


Uh, how about more properly '/product_list'  (or '/product-list') --
your customers don't care about the underlying '.xyz' technology, and
`Cool URIs don't change` http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI, or
so I've heard. :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-621-3445   === http://webtuitive.com

  dream.  code.


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