RE: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hello All, This looks like a really good cause. Please sign the petition to reopen the Accessibility Institute at the University of Texas created by the late John Slatin http://www.molly.com/2008/04/07/the-john-slatin-fund-accessibility-proj ect/ and colleagues here: http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/SavetheInstitute http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/SavetheInstitute . Let's show support for Mr. Slatin who clearly worked very hard to make the path towards universal accessibility and much needed training stronger for all of us. Regards, Kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
OT: RE: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Sorry. Slightly OT: Just a suggestion... there's every chance lecturer is just looking for a way to assess that you've got demonstrated knowledge of when upper and lower case is appropriate in HTML. If you discuss it with him he'll probably think it's great you're interested. If you approach it as I'm right and you're wrong... WSG said so!, the best you'll get is a clip over the ears for being a smartarse. :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Design Sent: Monday, 29 September 2008 12:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names As a fellow Uni student, I would do it in lower case with plenty of references to back my decision up. As long as you have references, you shouldn't lose marks. Check it out with your lecturer if in doubt though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luke Hoggett Sent: Friday, 26 September 2008 10:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names Write you markup in lowercase then parse it with a regex into uppercase before you hand it in. Really the uppercase is fine just bad style especially if you're moving on to XHTML. On 26/09/2008, at 21:38, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3478 (20080928) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.4/1695 - Release Date: 27/09/2008 1:11 PM __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3478 (20080928) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Tim Offenstein wrote: I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. He probably refers to this: Element names are written in uppercase letters (e.g., BODY). Attribute names are written in lowercase letters (e.g., lang, onsubmit). Recall that in HTML, element and attribute names are case-insensitive; the convention is meant to encourage readability. -- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/about.html#h-1.2.1 The two important things to note about it are: (1) It explicitly says that element and attribute names ARE case-insensitive and (2) It comes from the section that describes the conventions used in the documentation for the spec, not implementations of the spec. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Seems like a common issue of out dated methods being taught. Feels free to pass the lecturer in question to me. I'd be quite happy to discuss it with them. Also feel free to point your school towards the opera wsc at opera.com/wsc On 26 Sep 2008, at 13:59, Anthony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's no wonder students are coming out with such strange ideals. Tell him WSG says so. Regards, Anthony. Sent from my iPhone! On 26/09/2008, at 10:40 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but attribute values may be case-sensitive. From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
2008/9/26 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. I may sound a bit rebel, but if it was up to me, I would tell him to get out of the 90s, screw the mark. Then again, I have some very strange morals and such. Beliefs, I suppose you can call them. However, if I can thoroughly argue for my case, I'd do it. And usually I can. And I don't think the standard actually says you should write the tag names in uppercase, in fact, as far as I recall W3C suggests the exact opposite, *also* for HTML 4.01. Regards, Svip *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hi James, they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. That's a shame they're enforcing that. In HTML 4.01 either upper or lowercase is acceptable, but uppercase usage isn't forward-compatible into more modern doctypes. In general it's frowned upon and not considered a best practice. I guess you have to live with it for school; you don't want to anger the master and all that, but then again if others chime in with what I'm saying, perhaps a slew of anonymous forwarded emails to the poers-that-be might be for the general good. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Write you markup in lowercase then parse it with a regex into uppercase before you hand it in. Really the uppercase is fine just bad style especially if you're moving on to XHTML. On 26/09/2008, at 21:38, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hi James, While not a good practice, there may be the ulterior motive of the teacher to get you used to conforming to other people's standards. In the workplace, you will have to do this too - you may find yourself in similar situations, where you have to maintain legacy systems, where converted the mass of old code/markup isn't practical. It's more likely that the teacher is stuck in the nineties, but it's a good exercise nonetheless. Definitely recommend that he chooses better practices in your submission or end of course feedback though, but don't rebel :-D Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but attribute values may be case-sensitive. From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
It's no wonder students are coming out with such strange ideals. Tell him WSG says so. Regards, Anthony. Sent from my iPhone! On 26/09/2008, at 10:40 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but attribute values may be case-sensitive. From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. James, I think you're right to disagree, particularly since HTML 4.01 does not specify case (and besides the fact that HTML 4.01 is suppose to be the precursor to XHTML which *does* specify case for code). Ironically I used to code entirely in uppercase with the rationale that it made the code easier to differentiate from content. I would base my argument on the specifications of XHTML which is the newer, more modern DTD. Why train ourselves to use outdated methods? My .02. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
