Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
I think I'd like to hear from someone really into this stuff - because I realized that my interpretation would outlaw this: div img /div and surely that must be okay, no? I am confused, what problem do you try to solve? Yes, according to specification and DTD as shown earlier it is ok to have inline, block, or mixed content in DIV. Semantics don't have much to do with it - as you may have valid reasons to wrap single word (or image, or link) in SPAN you may have valid reasons to wrap it in DIV - they are both generic containers. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
We are discussing the current draft of html5: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#block-level btw, my example of div img /div was not a good one as the proposed new rule allows either inline OR blcok level elements within a div, just not both. however it does seem to say this would not be allowed, which makes no sense to me: div img p/p /div -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Rimantas Liubertas wrote: I think I'd like to hear from someone really into this stuff - because I realized that my interpretation would outlaw this: div img /div and surely that must be okay, no? I am confused, what problem do you try to solve? Yes, according to specification and DTD as shown earlier it is ok to have inline, block, or mixed content in DIV. Semantics don't have much to do with it - as you may have valid reasons to wrap single word (or image, or link) in SPAN you may have valid reasons to wrap it in DIV - they are both generic containers. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
I think I'd like to hear from someone really into this stuff - because I realized that my interpretation would outlaw this: div img /div and surely that must be okay, no? -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- E Michael Brandt wrote: I am going to disagree with my own last statement - it may be valid in the sense that it passes Validation testing online, but surely it is not semantically reasonable to have bare text. I am less sure myself about the semantics of bare a tags, but for the sake of symmetry.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
OK thanks. I assumed it was a no no as it does not make sense but I have learnt that making sense is not always a W3C thing :) In the templates that I recieved, the code looked like: div jhd jhd hwd wqdkh br /br / pkhdj jwhd jhwqdj hwd/p /div This actually does not view the same in every browser. In FF it showed up as a seperate paragraph but in IE it did not, it just broke the paragraph to the next line. I noted it hear on my blog http://germworks.net/blog/2007/04/05/inappropriate-use-of-p/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 9:03:58 am It appears that it is a no-no, or at least will become so. Does that mean you should go back and redo all your sites? Nope. AFAIK, every browser will handle this just fine, at least for the foreseeable future. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
Go ahead and try it, as I did. Create a page with that markup and run it thru a validator. It passes just fine. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Jermayn Parker wrote: Just how can this be valid?? the way i see it that ifyou have a paragraph or text it needs to be contained by a p tag or other similar tags [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 9:43:17 am uhoh, I think perhaps my wording might have confused you. It apparently will NOT allowed in the future, but for now, such markup Validates in Strict XHTML and HTML4. Hope that clarifies. btw, that different browsers render it differently is of course no surprise. This is, at least in part, due to differing default css values in each browser. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
On 7/27/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just how can this be valid?? the way i see it that ifyou have a paragraph or text it needs to be contained by a p tag or other similar tags Valid or not, it's not very semantic. -- Raena Jackson Armitage www.raena.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
Just how can this be valid?? the way i see it that ifyou have a paragraph or text it needs to be contained by a p tag or other similar tags [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 9:43:17 am uhoh, I think perhaps my wording might have confused you. It apparently will NOT allowed in the future, but for now, such markup Validates in Strict XHTML and HTML4. Hope that clarifies. btw, that different browsers render it differently is of course no surprise. This is, at least in part, due to differing default css values in each browser. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Jermayn Parker wrote: OK thanks. I assumed it was a no no as it does not make sense but I have learnt that making sense is not always a W3C thing :) In the templates that I recieved, the code looked like: div jhd jhd hwd wqdkh br /br / pkhdj jwhd jhwqdj hwd/p /div This actually does not view the same in every browser. In FF it showed up as a seperate paragraph but in IE it did not, it just broke the paragraph to the next line. I noted it hear on my blog http://germworks.net/blog/2007/04/05/inappropriate-use-of-p/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 9:03:58 am It appears that it is a no-no, or at least will become so. Does that mean you should go back and redo all your sites? Nope. AFAIK, every browser will handle this just fine, at least for the foreseeable future. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
uhoh, I think perhaps my wording might have confused you. It apparently will NOT allowed in the future, but for now, such markup Validates in Strict XHTML and HTML4. Hope that clarifies. btw, that different browsers render it differently is of course no surprise. This is, at least in part, due to differing default css values in each browser. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Jermayn Parker wrote: OK thanks. I assumed it was a no no as it does not make sense but I have learnt that making sense is not always a W3C thing :) In the templates that I recieved, the code looked like: div jhd jhd hwd wqdkh br /br / pkhdj jwhd jhwqdj hwd/p /div This actually does not view the same in every browser. In FF it showed up as a seperate paragraph but in IE it did not, it just broke the paragraph to the next line. I noted it hear on my blog http://germworks.net/blog/2007/04/05/inappropriate-use-of-p/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 9:03:58 am It appears that it is a no-no, or at least will become so. Does that mean you should go back and redo all your sites? Nope. AFAIK, every browser will handle this just fine, at least for the foreseeable future. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
we agree. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: On 7/27/07, *Jermayn Parker* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just how can this be valid?? the way i see it that ifyou have a paragraph or text it needs to be contained by a p tag or other similar tags Valid or not, it's not very semantic. -- Raena Jackson Armitage www.raena.net http://www.raena.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
Could someone please give me the answer to this in plain english.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/07/2007 4:04:18 pm div A line of plain text. pA paragraph./p Another line of text. /div Now a question, Is this actually valid?? I recently recieved some templates of another designer and this was scattered all throughout the pages. I went through and put p around them BUT is it valid??? Or is it a case of in Transitional DTD its ok but Strict DTD it is not?? Why not to check it? From HTML 4.01 Strict DTD: Let's see DIV: !ELEMENT DIV - - (%flow;)*-- generic language/style container -- Ok, now let's look up what is %flow: !ENTITY % flow %block; | %inline; Checking %inline: !ENTITY % inline #PCDATA | %fontstyle; | %phrase; | %special; | %formctrl; Just to make sure - %special: !ENTITY % special A | IMG | OBJECT | BR | SCRIPT | MAP | Q | SUB | SUP | SPAN | BDO Woohoo, A is here. Case closed. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
I just came across some code on a website that I'm maintaining and realized this is what this thread is about. The code I see is: div class=nav_sub_left a href=../news.htmlNews lt;/a pTestimonials lt;/p pa href=links.htmlPartner Links lt;/a/p /div Are you all saying it's not good that the first line in the div tag doesn't have paragraph tags around it? What if the extra space a paragraph tag would give is not wanted? Maybe I didn't study this thread well enough. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E Michael Brandt Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element we agree. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: On 7/27/07, *Jermayn Parker* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just how can this be valid?? the way i see it that ifyou have a paragraph or text it needs to be contained by a p tag or other similar tags Valid or not, it's not very semantic. -- Raena Jackson Armitage www.raena.net http://www.raena.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
Interesting. Yes i guess an a tag does not cut the mustard, as it is not a block level element. Good observation. But nonetheless, the w3c html validator says it is valid XHTML 1.0 Strict. So not currently a problem, so it would appear. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Joyce Evans wrote: I just came across some code on a website that I'm maintaining and realized this is what this thread is about. The code I see is: div class=nav_sub_left a href=../news.htmlNews lt;/a pTestimonials lt;/p pa href=links.htmlPartner Links lt;/a/p /div Are you all saying it's not good that the first line in the div tag doesn't have paragraph tags around it? What if the extra space a paragraph tag would give is not wanted? Maybe I didn't study this thread well enough. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E Michael Brandt Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element we agree. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
It appears that it is a no-no, or at least will become so. Does that mean you should go back and redo all your sites? Nope. AFAIK, every browser will handle this just fine, at least for the foreseeable future. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- Jermayn Parker wrote: Could someone please give me the answer to this in plain english.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/07/2007 4:04:18 pm div A line of plain text. pA paragraph./p Another line of text. /div Now a question, Is this actually valid?? I recently recieved some templates of another designer and this was scattered all throughout the pages. I went through and put p around them BUT is it valid??? Or is it a case of in Transitional DTD its ok but Strict DTD it is not?? Why not to check it? From HTML 4.01 Strict DTD: Let's see DIV: !ELEMENT DIV - - (%flow;)*-- generic language/style container -- Ok, now let's look up what is %flow: !ENTITY % flow %block; | %inline; Checking %inline: !ENTITY % inline #PCDATA | %fontstyle; | %phrase; | %special; | %formctrl; Just to make sure - %special: !ENTITY % special A | IMG | OBJECT | BR | SCRIPT | MAP | Q | SUB | SUP | SPAN | BDO Woohoo, A is here. Case closed. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
Best way is , put your link within headers, h2 and if you want to get rid of margin in that, do it through CSS. Even if you want to put in the paragraph tag, you can put a custom attribute - p class=sectionheadera href=../news.htmlNews lt;/a/p It's more semantic. Joyce Evans wrote: I just came across some code on a website that I'm maintaining and realized this is what this thread is about. The code I see is: div class=nav_sub_left a href=../news.htmlNews lt;/a pTestimonials lt;/p pa href=links.htmlPartner Links lt;/a/p /div Are you all saying it's not good that the first line in the div tag doesn't have paragraph tags around it? What if the extra space a paragraph tag would give is not wanted? Maybe I didn't study this thread well enough. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E Michael Brandt Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element we agree. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
I am going to disagree with my own last statement - it may be valid in the sense that it passes Validation testing online, but surely it is not semantically reasonable to have bare text. I am less sure myself about the semantics of bare a tags, but for the sake of symmetry.. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divaHTML.com divaGPS : you-are-here menu highlighting divaFAQ : FAQ pages with pizazz www.valleywebdesigns.com JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum -- E Michael Brandt wrote: Interesting. Yes i guess an a tag does not cut the mustard, as it is not a block level element. Good observation. But nonetheless, the w3c html validator says it is valid XHTML 1.0 Strict. So not currently a problem, so it would appear. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling ofanother block element
I am not an expert but from what I understand text, links etc need to be held in block elements ie: p etc for it to semanticly correct. Guessing this is were POSH comes into play. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/07/2007 11:18:45 am I just came across some code on a website that I'm maintaining and realized this is what this thread is about. The code I see is: div class=nav_sub_left a href=../news.htmlNews lt;/a pTestimonials lt;/p pa href=links.htmlPartner Links lt;/a/p /div Are you all saying it's not good that the first line in the div tag doesn't have paragraph tags around it? What if the extra space a paragraph tag would give is not wanted? Maybe I didn't study this thread well enough. The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
