Re: [WSG] css/html snippets
Pete, You've seen this, right? http://snippetz.net/ Cheers, Wendy Peter Ottery wrote: I *think* what i'm talking about it different. i'm just thinking more along the lines of a library of cut'n'paste chunks of re-usable code.. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] css/html snippets
Pete, Joshua wrote http://webpatterns.org/ *checks it out* ok, so the term patterns is potentially a too far advanced term for what i'm thinking of. all that microformat and machine readable data stuff is certainly interesting (Allsopp - i can hear you screaming about it from here ;-) but... I *think* what i'm talking about it different. i'm just thinking more along the lines of a library of cut'n'paste chunks of re-usable code.. maybe i'm trying to jump to the result of what the web-patternists are aiming to investigate. Probably the biggest problem with web patterns is the term patttern. Most of us think about persian carpets or something when we here the term. But it has a precise technical meaning in this context, so I decided to go with it, despite the potential for confusion. Originally, when I was first thinking about this whole issue (years ago now), I was thinking in terms of templates. Reusable chunks, much like you outlined in your earlier email. This is something which Doug Bowman and I chatted about a lot in the aftermath of WE04, and more recently Russ and I spoke more about, which took me more in the direction of patterns over templates. The drawback with shared templates is while these are immediately useful, they are also trivial. In the sense that they can be unthinkingly used, and by using them, no one gets anything other than the short term benefit of a shortcut to a quicker page. Btu in real world situations, while little reusable chunks are very useful, the whole idea does not scale up well. One you reach even major page fragments, they tend to become limiting, so people would bend them to suit their needs, and all of a sudden you don't actually get the benefits of reusable chunks anymore. How do patterns differ? Well, a pattern (such as login box) certainly should include an example implementation, even a canonical one, but more importantly, would also outline the typical use cases for the pattern other patterns which work well with this pattern patterns which this pattern plays a part in when NOT to use the pattern (simple example, radio buttons and checkboxes are often used interchangeably - but they are separate patterns, radio buttons should not be used when you want to choose more than one option out of three) Semantics - the pieces of the pattern all have usable semantic names - in the login example, the whole chunk itself would have a name, then each of the individual pieces may have names - so you get common semantics for free - that way you can all of a sudden reuse CSS as well as HTML. Cool eh? So along with resuable code, you a whole wealth of knowledge which has ben acquired by developers over time (an important thing about patterns is that they aren't novel inventions, rather, they capture and formalize well established current practice - they pave the cowpaths) Hope this helps make more sense of the aim of web patterns - at http://webpatterns.org and with the patternquiz there, I started in a top down way - but the bottom up way would work well too. I invite anyone vaguely interested to visit webpatterns.org, and ion particular share their thoughts via the patternQuiz (there are two parts now) http://webpatterns.org/wordpress/?cat=3 thanks john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference :: http://we05.com WebPatterns :: http://webpatterns.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] css/html snippets
on the topic of css patterns and re-usable chunks of code, there's plenty of whole css page layout resources that you can use as a starting point for your own stuff right, like the 'ol classics http://glish.com/css/ or http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ what about the insides of those layouts? with every subsequent design i do i gather more and more html associated css chunks that i reuse over and over. if you were using dreamweaver you'd call them snippets. things like: a login box a search box a search results pagination bar a set of search results a contact us form etc... you get the idea. just the really common stuff. obviously customisation of these would be/is required in almost all cases as soon as you paste them in but at least a starting point is handy are there resources/collections of these snippets out there? i cant find anything decent. ie: clean / semantic / sensible / 2006. if not, maybe there's a need for something...? ~~~ Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director Daemon Pty Ltd 17 Roslyn Gardens Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011 http://www.daemon.com.au/ COMING SOON webDU - the web technology conference http://webdu.com.au/ Sydney, March 2/3 2006 ~~~ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] css/html snippets
That web patterns thing people were bouncing around in here a month or so back? I've lost the address... if someone else doesn't post it, it's in the archives somewhere... probably something really obvious like webpatterns.org... Ah, yes, that's it. http://webpatterns.org/ On 2/2/06, Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on the topic of css patterns and re-usable chunks of code, there's plenty of whole css page layout resources that you can use as a starting point for your own stuff right, like the 'ol classics http://glish.com/css/ or http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ what about the insides of those layouts? with every subsequent design i do i gather more and more html associated css chunks that i reuse over and over. if you were using dreamweaver you'd call them snippets. things like: a login box a search box a search results pagination bar a set of search results a contact us form etc... you get the idea. just the really common stuff. obviously customisation of these would be/is required in almost all cases as soon as you paste them in but at least a starting point is handy are there resources/collections of these snippets out there? i cant find anything decent. ie: clean / semantic / sensible / 2006. if not, maybe there's a need for something...? ~~~ Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director Daemon Pty Ltd 17 Roslyn Gardens Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011 http://www.daemon.com.au/ COMING SOON webDU - the web technology conference http://webdu.com.au/ Sydney, March 2/3 2006 ~~~ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] css/html snippets
Joshua wrote http://webpatterns.org/ *checks it out* ok, so the term patterns is potentially a too far advanced term for what i'm thinking of. all that microformat and machine readable data stuff is certainly interesting (Allsopp - i can hear you screaming about it from here ;-) but... I *think* what i'm talking about it different. i'm just thinking more along the lines of a library of cut'n'paste chunks of re-usable code.. maybe i'm trying to jump to the result of what the web-patternists are aiming to investigate. pete ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] css/html snippets
Joshua also wrote: That web patterns thing people were bouncing around in here a month or so back? I've lost the address... if someone else doesn't post it, it's in the archives somewhere... oops. yeah ok: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg24333.html it was a good thread. i missed it. guilty as charged. *mental note - check the archives before posting* in saying that. i think i still have a hankering to put something together. pete ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
