Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
Hi, See also http://www.webaim.org/techniques/keyboard/tabindex.php On Sun, September 23, 2007 4:34 am, Christian Montoya wrote: On 9/22/07, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't think my question get answered. I want to know, without using the tabindex, can one still claim to have the tab order in place? Or rather, how you guys define/understand 'logical tab order'? A google search on 'logical tab order', shows up results that are related to tabindex. Let me see if I can help... if you have the form elements in the order that you want users to fill them out, then they are in logical tab order... when the user tabs through them, they'll be going in the right order. It's better to do this than to set up a tabindex because that always messes with the natural behavior that someone would expect. Browsers are already set up to tab through things linearly, so just place them linearly. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
Trying to polish up my accessibility statement. First, I don't have tabindex implemented in the web form and links as I concluded it's like access keys, prune to cause confusion than helpfulness. I have 'skip to content' and 'go to top' links, with :active and :focus, and I thought linking structure wise, I have a logical tab order planned out. So I wrote: You shall able to navigate this site using tab features with your keyboards comfortably. Logical tab orders are taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. [1] Decided to read more about tabindex and tab orders, after a few articles, I left with a confusion. For example, article written by Molly E.H defines 'logical tab orders with 'adding tabindex attribute'. Accessibility statements on a few sites claimed to have the logical tab orders but I don't see the tabindex attribute in the the markup. [1] I am pretty sure that paragraph is full of grammatical errors but I can't pinpoint them as I have difficulty with when to add 's' and where 's' should be added. So if you can correct my errors and explain to me that will be great :) Many thanks! tee lotusfromthemud.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
You shall able to navigate this site using tab features with your keyboards comfortably. Logical tab orders are taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. [1] Hi Tee, I would first point out is that this will be almost meaningless to anyone other than people familiar with html and css - so this is a message to web designer colleagues, but certainly not to the general public! Having said that - I'm not a language expert (gave up teaching English 17 years ago!) but below I've put a couple of versions, with explanations below them. You will be able to navigate this site comfortably using the tab key on your keyboard. Logical tab order is taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. or You should be able to navigate this site comfortably using the tab key on your keyboard. Logical tab order is taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. (Why not when they are focussed. ?) Explanation of changes: You shall able - could be You shall be able - but that sounds awkward - it is more common to say You will be able or even to change the tense to You should be able which I think fits the meaning better. I moved comfortably from the end of the sentence - eg: navigating the site should be comfortable when using the tab key on your keyboard rather than: navigating the site when using the tab key should be comfortable (what you had was not incorrect - but I think moving the word comfortably to the middle of the sentence is a more direct way of saying what you want to say). Logical tab order is seen as a singular item - you are talking about one thing - the logic of the tab order (even though that splits up into many parts). It is confusing when you stop to look at it! I hope this is helpful! Cheers, Simon simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
Simon, thank you so much for the English lesson. Thousand times better than my high shool English teacher who declared I absolutely cannot write a sentence in English, and that I should married myself out the moment I finished my high school, because, according to her, that was the only career I could had for my future :) I would first point out is that this will be almost meaningless to anyone other than people familiar with html and css - so this is a message to web designer colleagues, but certainly not to the general public! That is quite true, however on different perspective, I do think that sometimes putting a message like this on a site helps educate general public how to use their browsers to enhance their browsing experiences. Of course, only if they care to read the accessibility statement. Best regards, tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
Hi, I'd put something like: If you have difficulty using a mouse, you can easily move among the links and form items in a logical order using the tab key. As you tab from one to the next, the current item is highlighted to help show which has focus. I think mention of logical tab order or pseudo classes (even though that's what you've done) will only serve to confuse accessibility users - remember keeping explanations as simple as possible is also part of accessibility) Stuart. On Sat, September 22, 2007 11:19 am, Tee G. Peng wrote: Trying to polish up my accessibility statement. First, I don't have tabindex implemented in the web form and links as I concluded it's like access keys, prune to cause confusion than helpfulness. I have 'skip to content' and 'go to top' links, with :active and :focus, and I thought linking structure wise, I have a logical tab order planned out. So I wrote: You shall able to navigate this site using tab features with your keyboards comfortably. Logical tab orders are taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. [1] Decided to read more about tabindex and tab orders, after a few articles, I left with a confusion. For example, article written by Molly E.H defines 'logical tab orders with 'adding tabindex attribute'. Accessibility statements on a few sites claimed to have the logical tab orders but I don't see the tabindex attribute in the the markup. [1] I am pretty sure that paragraph is full of grammatical errors but I can't pinpoint them as I have difficulty with when to add 's' and where 's' should be added. So if you can correct my errors and explain to me that will be great :) Many thanks! tee lotusfromthemud.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
Hi Stuart, thank you so much for the suggestion. I like what you have here: As you tab from one to the next, the current item is highlighted to help show which has focus. I think mention of logical tab order or pseudo classes (even though that's what you've done) will only serve to confuse accessibility users - remember keeping explanations as simple as possible is also part of accessibility Will improve this :) I still don't think my question get answered. I want to know, without using the tabindex, can one still claim to have the tab order in place? Or rather, how you guys define/understand 'logical tab order'? A google search on 'logical tab order', shows up results that are related to tabindex. best and good weekend! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
On 9/22/07, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't think my question get answered. I want to know, without using the tabindex, can one still claim to have the tab order in place? Or rather, how you guys define/understand 'logical tab order'? A google search on 'logical tab order', shows up results that are related to tabindex. Let me see if I can help... if you have the form elements in the order that you want users to fill them out, then they are in logical tab order... when the user tabs through them, they'll be going in the right order. It's better to do this than to set up a tabindex because that always messes with the natural behavior that someone would expect. Browsers are already set up to tab through things linearly, so just place them linearly. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
