RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Because like I said, following this logic why not using table markup to give users of other UAs (old visual browsers like IE 5 Mac, NN6, etc) a better experience too? Why just SR users? because thats a different issue. It's an issue of the user not

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
On Behalf Of Steve Green I have a big problem with the term 'best practice', especially when it is used to effectively terminate a discussion. It implies that not only is there currently no better solution, but that there never will be. I believe that the most appropriate solution

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Designer
Steve Green wrote: I have a big problem with the term 'best practice', especially when it is used to effectively terminate a discussion. It implies that not only is there currently no better solution, but that there never will be. I believe that the most appropriate solution invariably depends

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Steve Green
] semantic list with explanations Thierry Koblentz wrote: Because like I said, following this logic why not using table markup to give users of other UAs (old visual browsers like IE 5 Mac, NN6, etc) a better experience too? Why just SR users? because thats a different issue. It's

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Steve Green
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations On Behalf Of Steve Green I have a big problem with the term 'best practice', especially when it is used to effectively terminate a discussion. It implies that not only is there currently no better solution

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-10 Thread Chris Knowles
David Hucklesby wrote: On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:13:13 +1100, Chris Knowles wrote: because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to software thats available and thats better. ... Just one niggle here. The user might well be using a computer at work, school, a

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-10 Thread Chris Knowles
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Because like I said, following this logic why not using table markup to give users of other UAs (old visual browsers like IE 5 Mac, NN6, etc) a better experience too? Why just SR users? because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-09 Thread Steve Green
agents is absurd. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Sent: 09 January 2008 06:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Absolutely it is. I'm rather surprised at how badly

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-09 Thread David Hucklesby
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:13:13 +1100, Chris Knowles wrote: because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to software thats available and thats better. ... Just one niggle here. The user might well be using a computer at work, school, a library, or an Internet café.

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
The desire for semantic purity is only one of many factors when deciding how to mark up a page. Other factors include (but are not limited to) UA support, the user experience, the time available to implement the design and the expected life of the website. I would expect a professional

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Thierry Koblentz wrote: No, what I'm saying is that we should write semantic markup and hope that SR manufacturers fix their product asap. JAWS, to name one product, is a very expensive software. Freedomscientific should take care of its customers, it is not to the authors to lower

[WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Tim MacKay
Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our main point of customer focus.blah blah blah.. 2. Pursuit of customer loyalty

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Karl Lurman
Definition List? On Jan 9, 2008 2:48 PM, Tim MacKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread E Michael Brandt
Definition List for sure. E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia --

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Chris Knowles
Tim MacKay wrote: Hello all, My first guess would be an ordered list but the definitions underneath don’t really allow for it. Why? A definition list doesn’t seem very appropriate either because of the wordiness of the explanations; to me a true definition list would only be a few words.

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Steve Green
, use headings. Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim MacKay Sent: 09 January 2008 03:49 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Chris Knowles
Steve Green wrote: I think that definition lists would be appropriate semantically but in the real world I don't know of any user agent that does anything useful with a definition list or any user group that derives any benefit from them. Certainly they make no sense when read with a screen

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Paul Minty
/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim MacKay Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2008 3:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Hello all

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Thierry Koblentz
about the user experience, use headings. Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim MacKay Sent: 09 January 2008 03:49 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Unless order is important, I'd vote for a Definition List too -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim MacKay Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] semantic

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Karl Lurman
I don't think theres any rules about the length of definitions? You are correct sir. A definition list implies to me the expansion of a term through definition. If anything that means the more text the better! I just noticed that Tim's list includes numbering... This means there could be some

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Chris Knowles
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Isn't the responsibility of screen reader manufacturers to treat DLs for what they are? Following this logic, we should be using basic table markup for layout to give people using old visual browsers a better experience. If we cheat with the markup to please user

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Steve Green
January 2008 05:21 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Hi Steve, Isn't the responsibility of screen reader manufacturers to treat DLs for what they are? Following this logic, we should be using basic table markup for layout to give people using old

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Isn't the responsibility of screen reader manufacturers to treat DLs for what they are? Following this logic, we should be using basic table markup for layout to give people using old visual browsers a better experience. If we cheat with the markup to

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Absolutely it is. I'm rather surprised at how badly they handle DLs, but almost zero percent of web developers use them even now (remember that standards-compliant designers represent perhaps 1% of the industry). Go back just a few years and no one at all was using them.   Is it not also the

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Chris Knowles
Thierry Koblentz wrote: No, what I'm saying is that we should write semantic markup and hope that SR manufacturers fix their product asap. JAWS, to name one product, is a very expensive software. Freedomscientific should take care of its customers, it is not to the authors to lower the

Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Ca Phun Ung
Tim MacKay wrote: Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our main point of customer focus...blah blah blah 2.