I use XHTML Strict, and have modded the DTD to accept New Window code.
If you would like you can use my version:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC XHTML 1.01 Strict
http://www.neester.com/DTD/xhtml-target.dtd;
I dubbed it XHTML 1.01 Strict...
I know incorrectly named 1.01 - but I thought it was cute at the
Chris Stratford wrote:
I use XHTML Strict, and have modded the DTD to accept New Window code.
What always makes me wonder about these solutions is that, in effect,
they are still reliant on the fact that current browsers have the
built-in understanding and capability of reacting a certain way
The browser will understand the target=_blank no matter what the DTD is.
I think it would just assume HTML, and therefore _blank = new window.
The DTD I forged with the help of a tutorial - will allow you the
VALIDATE XHTML 1.0 Strict code.
That is all - I should have mentioned that earlier.
And
I think you are correct in your assessment that opening a new window is
a behavior of the UA, and therefore (arguably) should not be included in
the DTD that describes the structure of a document.
Having said all that Chris's solution of having extended and published
the DTD is perfectly
Terrence Wood wrote:
Having said all that Chris's solution of having extended and published
the DTD is perfectly acceptable.
Yes, sorry...I wasn't questioning the validity of Chris' solution per
se. I was just taking a step back to look at the bigger picture, beyond
mere validation, to what it
Ryan Nichols wrote:
The reason you would want to usa a 'popup' is for contextual
information. Usually this is in more of a web application scenario than
a website per-se. So you have to think more broadly in the term of
website than serving documents with content in them (ala 'surfing').
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Don't imagine that users of visual browsers are automatically free of
disabilities. Think for instance about users with learning
disabilities...they too would get confused by a new window being popped
up, effectively breaking the back button navigation.
I believe I've
The main point they were making was that they wanted the new site in a
new window so that they can visually separate my site from external
links (a point I don't understand, since it should be pretty obvious
when you're leaving the original site). They also enjoyed the idea of
having the
PROTECTED]
Behalf Of john
Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 2:30 AM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window. I can see why some
would like
Assuming the user knows what the icons mean. In my experience, they
unfortunately don't.
Cheers,
Dey
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:48:50 +1000, Andreas Boehmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have a look at Disability Online (http://www.disability.vic.gov.au) - they
solve it quite nicely by opening
.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of john
Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 2:30 AM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dey Alexander
Assuming the user knows what the icons mean. In my experience, they
unfortunately don't.
Hi Dey,
I agree, but then again I don't think it harms anybody to have them.
And for the general
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rick Faaberg
Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 7:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
On 10/6/04 1:48 AM Andreas Boehmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Ryan Nichols wrote:
The reason you would want to usa a 'popup' is for contextual
information. Usually this is in more of a web application scenario than
a website per-se. So you have to think more broadly
: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 7:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Assuming the user knows what the icons mean. In my experience, they
unfortunately don't.
Cheers,
Dey
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:48:50 +1000, Andreas Boehmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED
Ryan, you have put forward a lot of ideas, but I can't help but thinking
that the examples you provide make a stronger case for the counterpoint
to the argument you are trying to make.
Ryan Nichols wrote:
The reason you would want to usa a 'popup' is for contextual
information. Usually this is
Regarding external links in new window, like many of you I have the
usual concerns. Although most users are familiar with the idea of
closing external windows, some users will be confused. Some people with
cognitive disabilities fit this description. Also changing the current
window or popping
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
A number of the corporations I've work for have the best practice of
presenting a page in the same window which notifies the user that they
are about to leave the coproration name web site with links that give
the user
Funny - the mail-archive.com link at http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/
opens in a new window...
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the
On 7/10/04 4:15 AM, Ryan Nichols wrote:
Here, I'll bring in the help of an expert. Excellent book, 'The Design
of Sites' by Douglas Duyne, James Landay, and Jason Hong. Quote is from
the section on Process Funnels.
I have this book, and as a formal collection of design patterns it's a
fantastic
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 2:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
On 7/10/04 4:15 AM, Ryan Nichols wrote:
Here, I'll bring in the help of an expert
Thanks for you contribution to this discussion Ryan, my apologies if you
felt 'got at' in any way by me... it certainly was a lively debate, and
it was great that you voiced your opinion with such enthusiasm.
cheers
./tdw
On 7/10/04 1:26 PM, Ryan Nichols wrote:
I'm intitially responded to a
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window. I can see why some
would like that, but I can also see why others would frown on it.
Is there a standard answer for Web standards, or what are your points
of view on this?
If you
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of john
Sent: 05 October 2004 17:30
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window
of external links in new window?
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window. I can see why some
would like that, but I can also see why others would frown on it.
Is there a standard answer for Web standards, or what are your
standards group
Subject: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window. I can see why some
would like that, but I can also see why others would frown on it.
Is there a standard answer
Mike Pepper wrote:
John,
Imagine using a screen reader when you are suddenly catapulted into a new
browser window. Your navigation is shot to pieces. It is best practice to
always open external links within the same browser session. At worst, it is
permissible when, for instance, you deem a pop-up
John wrote:
Many marketing groups would never accept replacing the content of the
current browser window of their site with the content of an external
site. Is there some standard way to give the user control of popups,
such as a checbox (maybe somewhat obscured from visual browsers)?
Don't
The best thing to do, if the client is absolutely adamant that new
windows be popped up, is to give users enough direct clues that
activating a link will indeed open a new window (e.g. adding (opens in
a new window) to the link text of title attribute, adding an icon - for
instance via css'
john wrote:
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new browser window. I can see why some
would like that, but I can also see why others would frown on it.
Please see the first two items at:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990530.html
Is there a standard answer for Web standards, or what are your points
of view on this?
The fact that the target attribute has disappeared from XHTML speaks
volumes: don't open new windows.
Opening new browser windows is about annoying as blinking text, or
marquee text, and I can't think of a
On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 02:30, john wrote:
Is there a standard answer for Web standards, or what are your points
of view on this?
Here is a recent discussion on the proposed CSS3 property 'target-new'
which was considering putting target behaviour into CSS, uurrgh!
I think the points raised
There is a whole plethora of points against opening new windows... I am
really curious as to what your usability team, or anybody else, see as
the benfits of opening new windows.
./tdw
john wrote:
Some of my usability team are telling me that they prefer to have
external links going into a new
Okay, I'll stick my neck out here for a list chopping.
I personally like opening a new window whenever I'm web surfing. It's
something that I got into a habit or doing long ago and far away. I'm still
waiting for a big, honking G5 to be sitting under my fingertips, but until
that day I'm stuck on
: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Okay, I'll stick my neck out here for a list chopping.
I personally like opening a new window whenever I'm web surfing. It's
something that I got into a habit or doing long ago
Wayne Godfrey wrote:
Even with the tab browsers that I've tried, I still end up opening a
new tab more often than using the back and forward buttons.
Key here is *I* [...] ended up opening a new tab. You, the user, made
that choice. Not the web author/developer...
Patrick
Thanks Wayne, appreciate the risk ;-)
What you are describing though is your personal preference for opening
new windows - which I am all in favour for. I prefer tabbed window
browsers myself and open alot of tabs - and therein lies my point.
Opening my own windows suits me and my workflow for
We currently use popup windows to provide an answer/feedback for an
activity/questionnaire. At one stage we were using hidden divs and JS to
unhide the div when the user hit a submit button, but from a usability
standpoint that was bad as it reset the page to the top (and so a
screenreader would
That's the point that needs to be made. Until the recent push to standards
and usability, everyone was just doing what was considered the norm. This
journey into standards and accessibility is completely new to me and many
others. BUT, there is still a stronghold of folks who think in tables,
Apparently I too browse in a very similar manner to Wayne, I open just
about every link in a new tab. Back when I used IE, I opened them in a
new window (Shift+Click was a wonderful thing, now it's Ctrl+Click)
However, I totally disapprove of opening links in a new window for one
reason only:
1. p id=q1question/p a href=anwserq1.htmlcheck out the answer
to question 1./a and in answerq1: a href=questions.html#q1return
to quiz/a
2. write the answers into the document server side when the form is
submitted and return it.
3. If the quiz relies on js then write the answer in using the
A number of the corporations I've work for have the best practice of
presenting a page in the same window which notifies the user that they
are about to leave the coproration name web site with links that
give the user the choice of continuing on to an external website or
returning to the page
Almost too obvious to point out, but we have a web-based app which
opens (full-sized) new windows sometimes, and in training, I often
have people say what happened to the Back button? It doesn't work!
-- if they're running a maximised Windows browser, a new window
opening is often
Apparently I too browse in a very similar manner to Wayne, I open just
about every link in a new tab. Back when I used IE, I opened them in a
new window (Shift+Click was a wonderful thing, now it's Ctrl+Click)
However, I totally disapprove of opening links in a new window for one
reason only:
We currently use popup windows to provide an answer/feedback for an
activity/questionnaire. At one stage we were using hidden divs and JS to
unhide the div when the user hit a submit button, but from a usability
standpoint that was bad as it reset the page to the top (and so a
screenreader would
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
There is a whole plethora of points against opening new windows... I am
really curious as to what your usability team, or anybody else, see as
the benfits of opening new windows.
./tdw
john wrote:
Some of my usability team
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