Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Keryx Web]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev:

I'm afraid this doesn't give me much confidence when your label for
HTML5  is (X)HTML 5
One of the major points about HTML5 is that it is _not_ XML based.


Already answered by liorean. May I add that prominent members of the 
WHAT-WG mailing list have read and OK'd my document as well.


Second point would be what do you mean by Block(ish)? 


"Block(-ish)/Inline(-ish)/Table refers to default CSS rendering."

Blockish: Real block elements, list-item

Table-ish:  table, table-row-group, table-header-group, 
table-footer-group, table-row, table-column-group, table-column, 
table-cell, table-caption


No element defaults to: run-in, inline-block, inline-table, marker or 
compact.




Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[liorean]

On 11/08/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm afraid this doesn't give me much confidence when your label for
> HTML5  is (X)HTML 5
> One of the major points about HTML5 is that it is _not_ XML based.

The HTML 5 WG have not only a non-SGML serialisation for text/html as
one of their chartered deliverables, but also an XML serialisation
that is intended to replace XHTML1.0/1.1.


See the HTML WG charter: 

2. Deliverables
2.1 New publications and Milestones
There is a single specification deliverable for the HTML Working
Group, the HTML specification, a platform-neutral and
device-independent design with the following items in scope:
*  A language evolved from HTML4 for describing the semantics of
documents and applications on the World Wide Web. This will be a
complete specification, not a delta specification.
* An extensible, serialized form of such a language, using XML.
* A serialized form of such a language using a defined, non-XML
syntax compatible with the 'classic HTML' parsers of existing Web
browsers.
* Document Object Model (DOM) interfaces providing APIs for such a language.
* Forms and common UI widgets such as progress bars, datagrids,
menus, and other controls.
* APIs for the manipulation of linked media.
* Editing APIs and user-driven WYSIWYG editing features.


> Second point would be what do you mean by Block(ish)?

Elements that behave like block level elements, I'd say.
-- 
David "liorean" Andersson


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RE: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[michael.brockington]

I'm afraid this doesn't give me much confidence when your label for
HTML5  is (X)HTML 5
One of the major points about HTML5 is that it is _not_ XML based.

Second point would be what do you mean by Block(ish)? 

Regards,
Mike


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[David Dorward]

On 10 Aug 2007, at 09:34, Tee G. Peng wrote:
I think bottom posting (is this how it's called?) is equally bad  
when one needs to scroll all the way down to read a few line of  
message.


The solution to this problem is not top posting (digest users still  
have to scroll past the entire repeated messages), it is limiting  
quotes to only relevant material.



--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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RE: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Frank Palinkas]

Hi Tee,

Thanks! Point noted and understood. 

Kind regards,

Frank


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tee G. Peng
Sent: Friday, 10 August, 2007 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link


On Aug 10, 2007, at 12:53 AM, Dean Edridge wrote:

> Frank Palinkas wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Frank M. Palinkas
>> Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
>> W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert 
>> M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   Senior Technical  
>> Communicator Web Standards & Accessibility Designer  
>> 
>> website: http://frank.helpware.net email:  
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  Member:  
>> Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) Guild of  
>> Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.)Web Standards Group  
>> (W.S.G.) 
>> Supergroup Trading Ltd. Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa website:  
>> http://www.supergroup.co.za
>> 
>> Work:   +27 011 523 4931 Home:   +27 011 455 5287 Fax:+27 011  
>> 455 3112 Mobile: +27 074 109 1908
>> 
>>

Wow! this is the longer signature I ever seen and it's quite  
unpleasant to need to scorll down in order to read the message.

Sorry, Dean and Frank, I am not making any compliant. I am here to  
learn the best web practise from many of you guys and I see that some  
of the members condemn top posting; I think bottom posting (is this  
how it's called?) is equally bad when one needs to scroll all the way  
down to read a few line of message. I think this is one of the  
accessible issue perhaps not many people pay attention to.  One of my  
client is semi-paralyze and doesn't make use of assistive software  
because, according to her,  it's too expensive and too much learning  
curve. One time she made a comment to me that I should write my  
message in the top so that she doesn't need to scroll all the way  
down ( I always trim my post when I response). I was in her office  
recently and witnessed how she uses computer, it was unimaginable  
inconvenient and uncomfortable for me to watch. She has mobile  
problem on her hands too. I watched her literally spending some 3 or  
4 minutes to scroll all the way down in order to read an email.

tee



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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Dean Edridge]

David Dorward wrote:

On 10 Aug 2007, at 08:53, Dean Edridge wrote:

But it's not supposed to work in ie5, 6 or 7. It's a XHTML document.


But why? I can't see anything that could not be expressed in HTML in 
that document.



Internet Explorer is rubbish


Its improving.


does not support Web Standards


Nor does anything else, at least not completely. IE might be lagging 
behind, but its catching up.



and has zero support for XHTML.


I'd far rather see bugs fixed then new features added. Client side 
XHTML support would bring benefits to far fewer authors then fixing 
all the interesting CSS bugs would.


David. "New features added". Really? I don't think I'm asking too much 
to be able to use features that have been W3C recommendations for 8 
years. Nor was I suggesting that bug fixing be overlooked as these "new 
features" be added. It's not for you or anyone else to decide that XHTML 
has little benefits and then push for the deprecation of it. Pretending 
that Internet Explorer has not held back the progress of the web is not 
in the best interest of Web Standards in general. It's 2007, surely 
people should be able to use XHTML and SVG by now.


Dean Edridge


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Nick Cowie]

Lars

Thanks for this, it is a handy reference.

Especially with  XHTML mobile.



-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Tee G. Peng]

On Aug 10, 2007, at 12:53 AM, Dean Edridge wrote:


Frank Palinkas wrote:



Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert 
M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   Senior Technical  
Communicator Web Standards & Accessibility Designer  

website: http://frank.helpware.net email:  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Member:  
Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) Guild of  
Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.)Web Standards Group  
(W.S.G.) 
Supergroup Trading Ltd. Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa website:  
http://www.supergroup.co.za


Work:   +27 011 523 4931 Home:   +27 011 455 5287 Fax:+27 011  
455 3112 Mobile: +27 074 109 1908





Wow! this is the longer signature I ever seen and it's quite  
unpleasant to need to scorll down in order to read the message.


Sorry, Dean and Frank, I am not making any compliant. I am here to  
learn the best web practise from many of you guys and I see that some  
of the members condemn top posting; I think bottom posting (is this  
how it's called?) is equally bad when one needs to scroll all the way  
down to read a few line of message. I think this is one of the  
accessible issue perhaps not many people pay attention to.  One of my  
client is semi-paralyze and doesn't make use of assistive software  
because, according to her,  it's too expensive and too much learning  
curve. One time she made a comment to me that I should write my  
message in the top so that she doesn't need to scroll all the way  
down ( I always trim my post when I response). I was in her office  
recently and witnessed how she uses computer, it was unimaginable  
inconvenient and uncomfortable for me to watch. She has mobile  
problem on her hands too. I watched her literally spending some 3 or  
4 minutes to scroll all the way down in order to read an email.


tee



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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Keryx Web]

David Dorward skrev:

On 10 Aug 2007, at 08:53, Dean Edridge wrote:

But it's not supposed to work in ie5, 6 or 7. It's a XHTML document.


But why? I can't see anything that could not be expressed in HTML in 
that document.




XSLT and perhaps SVG is coming...


Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[David Dorward]

On 10 Aug 2007, at 08:53, Dean Edridge wrote:

But it's not supposed to work in ie5, 6 or 7. It's a XHTML document.


But why? I can't see anything that could not be expressed in HTML in  
that document.



Internet Explorer is rubbish


Its improving.


does not support Web Standards


Nor does anything else, at least not completely. IE might be lagging  
behind, but its catching up.



and has zero support for XHTML.


I'd far rather see bugs fixed then new features added. Client side  
XHTML support would bring benefits to far fewer authors then fixing  
all the interesting CSS bugs would.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Dean Edridge]

Frank Palinkas wrote:

Hi Lars,

Thanks for the hard work and time taken to do this. It's appreciated.

May I make one suggestion please? The character reference (✓) you're
using for the "checkmark" symbol does not render in IE6 or below. However, it
does render perfectly in the latest versions of Opera, Firefox, Netscape and
Safari for Windows. IE 6 and below renders it as a plain square box. If you
don't mind this occurring in IE 6 and below, then please ignore my comment.
If it is of importance, then maybe using a "plus" (+) sign (+) or
another cross-browser recognized character reference will do.

Thanks again,

Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert
M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   
Senior Technical Communicator 
Web Standards & Accessibility Designer 

website: http://frank.helpware.net 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Member: 
Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) 
Guild of Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.)
Web Standards Group (W.S.G.) 

Supergroup Trading Ltd. 
Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa 
website: http://www.supergroup.co.za


Work:   +27 011 523 4931 
Home:   +27 011 455 5287 
Fax:+27 011 455 3112 
Mobile: +27 074 109 1908



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Keryx Web
Sent: Thursday, 09 August, 2007 22:57 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

Andrew Freedman skrev:
  

Any chance that you could perhaps upload the page or post the correct link?




Ooops!

http://keryx.se/resources/html-elements.xhtml

Sorry all!


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But it's not supposed to work in ie5, 6 or 7. It's a XHTML document. 
Internet Explorer is rubbish, does not support Web Standards and has 
zero support for XHTML. Hopefully IE8 will support XHTML, but don't hold 
your breath.


Dean Edridge


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Keryx Web]

Frank Palinkas skrev:


May I make one suggestion please? The character reference (✓) you're
using for the "checkmark" symbol does not render in IE6 or below. However, it
does render perfectly in the latest versions of Opera, Firefox, Netscape and
Safari for Windows. 


It does *not* render perfectly in my version of Safari for Windows (the 
latest beta), so this is probably a font issue.


Since the page is sent as XHTML and uses CSS3-selectors, MSIE is 
basically out of the question anyway.


My plans for the future is to improve how the checkmark, the "D" for 
deprecated, "I" for inline, "R" for replaced, etc are presented by som 
XSLT/JavaScript enhancements.



Lars Gunther


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RE: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Frank Palinkas]

Hi Lars,

Thanks for the hard work and time taken to do this. It's appreciated.

May I make one suggestion please? The character reference (✓) you're
using for the "checkmark" symbol does not render in IE6 or below. However, it
does render perfectly in the latest versions of Opera, Firefox, Netscape and
Safari for Windows. IE 6 and below renders it as a plain square box. If you
don't mind this occurring in IE 6 and below, then please ignore my comment.
If it is of importance, then maybe using a "plus" (+) sign (+) or
another cross-browser recognized character reference will do.

Thanks again,

Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert
M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   
Senior Technical Communicator 
Web Standards & Accessibility Designer 

website: http://frank.helpware.net 
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Member: 
Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) 
Guild of Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.)
Web Standards Group (W.S.G.) 

Supergroup Trading Ltd. 
Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa 
website: http://www.supergroup.co.za

Work:   +27 011 523 4931 
Home:   +27 011 455 5287 
Fax:    +27 011 455 3112 
Mobile: +27 074 109 1908


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Keryx Web
Sent: Thursday, 09 August, 2007 22:57 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

Andrew Freedman skrev:
> Any chance that you could perhaps upload the page or post the correct link?


Ooops!

http://keryx.se/resources/html-elements.xhtml

Sorry all!


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Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link

[Keryx Web]

Andrew Freedman skrev:

Any chance that you could perhaps upload the page or post the correct link?



Ooops!

http://keryx.se/resources/html-elements.xhtml

Sorry all!


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