Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I had a look at all the options and found all of them were very bulky in code and very difficult to understand, except to the programmer who created it. Also none were very easily customisable or semantically correct, or only had two levels or a fixed number of levels deep. Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I had a look at all the options and found all of them were very bulky in code and very difficult to understand, except to the programmer who created it. Also none were very easily customisable or semantically correct, or only had two levels or a fixed number of levels deep. Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. ULs convey meaning also - perhaps better than OLs. However, there are flyout menus that don't use contiguous lists and they can be good, too. An example would be Opera's menu: http://www.opera.com or our Tab Bar menu: http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/tbm/index.htm Two of the most often recommended commercial menu tools use contiguous lists: 1. http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ 2. http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/index.htm And for basic, single level menus, where enhancements or usability features are not required, there is the infamous Suckerfish menu. http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ All in all, there are lots of poorly designed menu systems (I won't name names either), but there are some good ones. In terms of both standards and accessibility, this article might interest you: http://projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated/index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
Al Sparber said: Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Hi Al, I suspect any menu system that doesn't use the elements recommended for navigation menu's since last century (i.e at least HTML 2.0) could be considered semantically incorrect. I'll leave it to the W3C to explain: HTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_5.html#SEC5.6.4 HTML 4.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-MENU XHTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xhtml2-20050527/mod-list.html kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) Al Sparber said: Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Hi Al, I suspect any menu system that doesn't use the elements recommended for navigation menu's since last century (i.e at least HTML 2.0) could be considered semantically incorrect. That's marvelous information, Terrence :-) I was actually trying to point out that there are some menu systems and techniques that are not semantically incorrect. Gosh I don't like that word. -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
This one http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ looks absolutely excellent. Can't judge the code, don't like the price. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. ULs convey meaning also - perhaps better than OLs. However, there are flyout menus that don't use contiguous lists and they can be good, too. An example would be Opera's menu: http://www.opera.com or our Tab Bar menu: http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/tbm/index.htm Two of the most often recommended commercial menu tools use contiguous lists: 1. http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ 2. http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/index.htm And for basic, single level menus, where enhancements or usability features are not required, there is the infamous Suckerfish menu. http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ All in all, there are lots of poorly designed menu systems (I won't name names either), but there are some good ones. In terms of both standards and accessibility, this article might interest you: http://projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated /index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
