Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
Chris Kennon wrote: I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Before passing this along to clients as mantra, I thought seeking the advice of the participants of the list advantageous. Hi, I've used drop down menus on many sites, but in the end I've always wished I hadn't. I no longer use them. They /can/ be useful for return visitors who are familiar with the content of your site because fewer clicks are required to get to specific content, but for first time users or users who are less attentive, they tend to be less productive. Users tend to spend more time searching menus and making guesses, than it would take to simply click through an intuitive top-level navigation. I also prefer a top-level only type navigation because it gives me more opportunities to present content and information to the user. A drop down menu such as the following: Solutions solution 1 solution 2 solution 3 solution 4 is generally less effective and informative than a top level link that leads to a topic page that provides a brief overview of each solution. This is a better overall value for the organization, more informative to the user, and more effective for search engine optimization. As for screen clutter, I haven't found drop down menus to very helpful in this regard either. Generally, the links usually contained in the sub-navigation of a drop down are represented on the topic page as contextual navigation, essentially accomplishing the same clutter control as a drop down menu might. I can't really think of any good reason to use a drop down menu other than a /possible/ reduction in clicks for the user. Best regards, Michael Wilson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
On 11/25/05, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Before passing this along to clients as mantra, I thought seeking the advice of the participants of the list advantageous. Respectfully, Chris Agreed. Dropdown navigation doesn't tell you as much about each section as does a complete section page. It also doesn't make navigation more convenient. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
I am with you on that. I don't feel that dropdowns are as user friendly as they could be. I think people should be directed to the information they are using by providing descriptive top level navigation, contextual linking and logical 2nd level navigation within the context of the related main subsection. Site maps and search utilities are also a good way to ensure that people will get to the info or goal. Jay Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Before passing this along to clients as mantra, I thought seeking the advice of the participants of the list advantageous. Respectfully, Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
Chris Kennon wrote: I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Agreed under the assumption that you're not referring to navigating by select box. I only say that because I had a 10 minute debate with someone who was referring to drop-downs when they meant select. :| Menus with drop down features are my idea of hyperhell and the majority of implementations are hyperdeath for screenreaders. IMO, they are often used instead of good contextual links, calls to action and invitations to action within the content proper which deliver much better usability. FWIW I think contextual links are also more 'natural' in the sense that in most cases, links from the actual content are an organic drill-down/across/up and allow users to make a series of logical steps towrds their goals. Too often I've been interested in something mentioned in the content of page but then being _forced_ to use a master drop down menu to find related information becuse there was no link from the content to quickly drill to it. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
Just to stop this thread from being too one-sided, I disagree. While I do agree that care should be taken, it depends on the content that is being portrayed and the levels of hierarchy involved. On a relatively simple site structure, drop-downs can serve to reduce screen clutter while allowing rapid cross-sectional navigation. In my site, I'm not implementing drop down menus, merely because I couldn't afford the time needed to fit into the design. I'm sure they will come later though. I have, however, added a breadcrumb style list to allow easy navigation back up the hierarchy. Using nested lists to represent site navigation can give more semantic information about a site in one go than having different menus on each page. If the site is simple enough to support it, the navigation menus should represent the whole site while contextual links should be indicated within the body of the page either as a menu or just inline. Stephen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: 25 November 2005 20:46 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus] Chris Kennon wrote: I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Agreed under the assumption that you're not referring to navigating by select box. I only say that because I had a 10 minute debate with someone who was referring to drop-downs when they meant select. :| Menus with drop down features are my idea of hyperhell and the majority of implementations are hyperdeath for screenreaders. IMO, they are often used instead of good contextual links, calls to action and invitations to action within the content proper which deliver much better usability. FWIW I think contextual links are also more 'natural' in the sense that in most cases, links from the actual content are an organic drill-down/across/up and allow users to make a series of logical steps towrds their goals. Too often I've been interested in something mentioned in the content of page but then being _forced_ to use a master drop down menu to find related information becuse there was no link from the content to quickly drill to it. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
From: Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus] Chris Kennon wrote: I've adopted the philosophy, drop down menus are a surrogate for detailed Information Architecture. Sub-navigation should be introduced on internal pages to navigate sub-sections. Agreed under the assumption that you're not referring to navigating by select box. I only say that because I had a 10 minute debate with someone who was referring to drop-downs when they meant select. :| Menus with drop down features are my idea of hyperhell and the majority of implementations are hyperdeath for screenreaders. IMO, they are often used instead of good contextual links, calls to action and invitations to action within the content proper which deliver much better usability. FWIW I think contextual links are also more 'natural' in the sense that in most cases, links from the actual content are an organic drill-down/across/up and allow users to make a series of logical steps towrds their goals. Too often I've been interested in something mentioned in the content of page but then being _forced_ to use a master drop down menu to find related information becuse there was no link from the content to quickly drill to it. In an ideal world - you have a point. But drop-down hierarchical menus can be useful if well-deployed - and they can be integrated into an accessible web site, too. The web comes in shades of gray. Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
Hi, When you say contextual linking you’re referring to sub-navigation appropriate to each sub-section? C On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Jon Tan wrote: IMO, they are often used instead of good contextual links, ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Casual Friday[Drop-Down Menus]
Hi, Never mind! I knew them as breadcrumbs. C On Nov 25, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, When you say contextual linking you’re referring to sub-navigation appropriate to each sub-section? C On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Jon Tan wrote: IMO, they are often used instead of good contextual links, ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
