Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
InfoForce Services (Angus MacKinnon) wrote: This brings up a question. How effective are Skip navigation links? I have heard that half the people do not understand what skip navigation links are. I design web sites to get to the main content or with very few links until the main content. I'm in line with your approach. Main content should ideally come first on a web page, although that's not always easy to perfect. When asking my sight-impaired / blind friends in Norway about such things, they tend to say: Don't fix everything for us. We know how to get around, and prefer our own solutions. 'Content first' helps, but that's about it. Cut out the noise and remove all barriers. My own very unscientific research says that 4 out of 10 do not understand internal links in a web page, so they just tab past them. Skip Nav comes in that category, and no international standards and sketchy implementation doesn't help much here. Some standards incorporated as link-relations handled by the browsers are needed, or else all well-intended use of skip links in web pages becomes just some more smart but not very useful noise. Myself: My eyes are not young anymore, so I blow up all the tiny text around - often using Opera's Zoom. Skip Links are rarely needed, and they tend to become part of the noise. Some of the latest pop up when hovered *Skip Nav* links are disturbing to the point that I tend to skip those sites altogether. An alternative that works well is to enter such helpful sites in Opera's SSR-mode, and blow them up 400%. That works really well since so few sites are styled for handheld yet. Besides, I can just dump their CSS anyway and apply my own. No Skip Anything that can be avoided, is my approach. Look one more time at the design-method instead. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Oh Damn, I guess I will have to make it visible again. I have only tested it on FF, IE6 and IE5. FYI, on the first tab Opera 8 beta 3 jumps to the name input at the bottom. h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: 15 April 2005 00:55 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility Richard, these are all good questions. The best thing to do as actually observe real people (with disabilities) interacting with sites. I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. They are more likely to struggle on if the information is very important or only available at one particular site. When David Woodbridge's was demonstrating a poorly built site to the WSG last year he commented: I am doing this to demonstrate the problems. In real life I would never really go this far into a site this bad, I would have left on the fist page. Think of it in other terms. If there was a shop with major physical barriers (like being forced to climb a ladder just to get into the shop), and the shop keeper was never available, would you hang around long? Compare that to a shop nearby with easy access and friendly staff. Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
Mike Did he make any suggestions asto the features a well designed site map should have? -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Mike Pepper wrote: I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
Hi Neerav, No, unfortunately not. My own feeling is to offer sensible page summaries against each link (page) reference. To be honest, I've not looked into this further (other than feeling a bloody idiot that I hadn't made the site map page the first link in the set of skip navs - but we live and, from the experiences of others, learn ;o) ). Even now your question prompts me wonder why on earth I haven't given a site summary at the head of the site map page :-/ -- which I shall now correct :o) Cheers, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neerav Sent: 16 April 2005 14:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link Mike Did he make any suggestions asto the features a well designed site map should have? -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Mike Pepper wrote: I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 14/04/05 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. Dave Shea has it on Mezzoblue too, great feature...) -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Jan Brasna For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. Dave Shea has it on Mezzoblue too, great feature...) But I have to say, on that Lions site, it's disingenious to have the skip appear on the far right. Users with low vision may only see a small fraction of the actual page (if they use screen magnifiers or just have their resolution set really low). Traditionally they'll start to read top-left. Now, first TAB, and if they only see a screen section equivalent to the width of the logo, say, they may completely miss the this feature. But it's certainly better than not providing anything at all. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: Hi Rob For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. Very nice. I also like what Molly has done http://www.molly.com/ Use the tab key - 2nd tab -- Ben Hamilton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hamilton.id.au/?:-) Need a web site hosted? I was fed up with the poor service I was getting and decided that I could do better. Here it is: http://dynamicwebhosting.com.au/?referrer=emailsighidau ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
OK, I have now enabled full keyboard access (system preferences), but when I use the tab key in both sites listed below nothing happens. It is only when I hover over the area where the navigation should appear that each link appears. For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. Very nice. I also like what Molly has done http://www.molly.com/ Use the tab key - 2nd tab Can anyone suggest what may be wrong with my set up as I imagine this is *not* what is meant to happen. The user would have to guess where these links are using the method I currently need to use! Sarah ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Lea de Groot wrote, On 14.04.2005 04:50: I've seen a couple of sites with a very nice tab interface whereby the 'skip' link became visible on the first tab, but was hidden if that didnt happen. I like the idea and used it myself in a recent procject, but I've never been able to get Opera cooperating. a:focus works in other browser but Opera seems not to use these styles when keyboard activated via a or q. Does anyone know more about this issue? Susanne -- http://sujag.de - Webentwicklung und -beratung D-10119 Berlin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On 14 Apr 2005, at 7:22 pm, Susanne Jaeger wrote: I like the idea and used it myself in a recent procject, but I've never been able to get Opera cooperating. a:focus works in other browser but Opera seems not to use these styles when keyboard activated via a or q. Does anyone know more about this issue? a:focus is simply not implemented in Opera. It uses its own scheme, but doesn't listen to the css :focus. It only works partly on form elements, I think. Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:50pm, Lea de Groot wrote: I've seen a couple of sites with a very nice tab interface whereby the 'skip' link became visible on the first tab, but was hidden if that didnt happen. I think Mike Pepper does it at http://www.seowebsitepromotion.com/ That's the method I use too. I like to make sure the skip link is very visible (once the tab key is hit). Here's an example from one of my recent sites. http://www.cudahyfamilylibrary.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: OK, I have now enabled full keyboard access (system preferences), but when I use the tab key in both sites listed below nothing happens. It is only when I hover over the area where the navigation should appear that each link appears. I'm guessing it may be this: You need to change a setting in Safari for that. Go to preferences, then in the advanced tab change do not highlight links as you press the Tab key to Highlight links as you press the Tab key from http://www.access-matters.com/2005/04/07/quiz-242-now-you-see-me-now-you-dont/#comment-156 -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
One small thing that bothers me with the tab to make skip nav visible approach. What if a physically disabled site visitor loads the page, doesn't see the [skip nav], thinks bugger this and leaves before tabbing? Especially if the site's home page does not contain an accessibility statement. I'd like to know what a web savvy physically disabled person thinks about this technique (which other that this small concern I really like). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 14/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Ben Wrighton wrote: What if a physically disabled site visitor loads the page, doesn't see the [skip nav], thinks bugger this and leaves before tabbing? Especially if the site's home page does not contain an accessibility statement. That would probably depend on why they came to the site in the first place. Also, as most mainstream sites don't actually have anything like skip links, I fear they'd say bugger it quite often when going online... -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Are users really *that* impatient? Does the physically disabled site user not even bother to see if the content on the page is worth-while? As a developer who believes in validation, would you not bother looking at a page if you you didn't see a little xhtml link at the bottom? Should we bother to build site for people who don't bother to use them? Just a thought... And a reminder that we're after best practice within the contrainsts provided by the project and the technology, not a rigid, total and utter compliancy to every living mammal on the planet. R - Original Message - From: Ben Wrighton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility One small thing that bothers me with the tab to make skip nav visible approach. What if a physically disabled site visitor loads the page, doesn't see the [skip nav], thinks bugger this and leaves before tabbing? Especially if the site's home page does not contain an accessibility statement. I'd like to know what a web savvy physically disabled person thinks about this technique (which other that this small concern I really like). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 14/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Richard, these are all good questions. The best thing to do as actually observe real people (with disabilities) interacting with sites. I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. They are more likely to struggle on if the information is very important or only available at one particular site. When David Woodbridge's was demonstrating a poorly built site to the WSG last year he commented: I am doing this to demonstrate the problems. In real life I would never really go this far into a site this bad, I would have left on the fist page. Think of it in other terms. If there was a shop with major physical barriers (like being forced to climb a ladder just to get into the shop), and the shop keeper was never available, would you hang around long? Compare that to a shop nearby with easy access and friendly staff. Russ Are users really *that* impatient? Does the physically disabled site user not even bother to see if the content on the page is worth-while? As a developer who believes in validation, would you not bother looking at a page if you you didn't see a little xhtml link at the bottom? Should we bother to build site for people who don't bother to use them? Just a thought... And a reminder that we're after best practice within the contrainsts provided by the project and the technology, not a rigid, total and utter compliancy to every living mammal on the planet. R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
russ - maxdesign wrote: I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. Even before one or two tabs though? -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
I accept the point, Russ. However, on a practical level, the concern that Ben expressed regarding accessibility compared to the importance of the content on the page is a decision the users need to make all the time and one that doesn't usually cost a lot: Interesting content... I guess I'll push through the site even though it obviously isn't built for me. vs I'm not even doing to bother looking at this site even though it might have the answers I'm looking for. For any web user (disabled or not) the second attitude isn't going to get them very far. I'm hoping that if I build a site that features good accessibility options then I will get people more people **preferring** to use my site over others that may have similar content. I've been following the Skip Link discussion because I find it to be a very contentious issue. No one has seemed to come up with a 100% successful answer that pleases everybody. My point is this: even **having** the Skip to Content feature on the site in any form is a far sight better than not having one. If it only works for blind users and not physically disabled users, it's still better than sites that don't have one at all. I dare say that there are more sites out there that don't have then than those that do. Do visually or physically disabled people 'not bother' to look at ALL those pages? At the end of the day, we're still *trying* to get it right. It sometimes feels as though we're being beaten over the head for not having everything function perfectly for everybody - and I don't think we ever will (too many different types of people, too diverse a range of technology). It seems as though we should be giving a 'clap on the back' for those developers that spend hours of their time *testing* all these ideas out with the aim of making peoples lives better... PS: Sorry about the soapbox - it's the end of the week and I needed to vent... R :o) - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility Richard, these are all good questions. The best thing to do as actually observe real people (with disabilities) interacting with sites. I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. They are more likely to struggle on if the information is very important or only available at one particular site. When David Woodbridge's was demonstrating a poorly built site to the WSG last year he commented: I am doing this to demonstrate the problems. In real life I would never really go this far into a site this bad, I would have left on the fist page. Think of it in other terms. If there was a shop with major physical barriers (like being forced to climb a ladder just to get into the shop), and the shop keeper was never available, would you hang around long? Compare that to a shop nearby with easy access and friendly staff. Russ Are users really *that* impatient? Does the physically disabled site user not even bother to see if the content on the page is worth-while? As a developer who believes in validation, would you not bother looking at a page if you you didn't see a little xhtml link at the bottom? Should we bother to build site for people who don't bother to use them? Just a thought... And a reminder that we're after best practice within the contrainsts provided by the project and the technology, not a rigid, total and utter compliancy to every living mammal on the planet. R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:03:50 +1200, Ben Wrighton wrote: What if a physically disabled site visitor loads the page, doesn't see the [skip nav], thinks bugger this and leaves before tabbing? Especially if the site's home page does not contain an accessibility statement. And the obvious solution would be to ensure there is a link to the accessability statement on the front (and indeed each) page? It would be nice to think that, assuming the 'skip link becomes visible on tab' approach works, that it will become common and users will become accustomed to hitting the tab key to see if they get to that something extra that is there just for them. IMHO Lea ~ looking for a permanent position in Brisbane - please contact me for CV -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
This brings up a question. How effective are Skip navigation links? I have heard that half the people do not understand what skip navigation links are. I design web sites to get to the main content or with very few links until the main content. Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. http://www.choroideremia.org Advocates for Sight Impaired Consumers (ASIC) http://www.asic.bc.cx ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
It's also useful for users of other assistive technology devices, such as head wands or those with limited mobility, as it reduces the number of 'tabs' a user is required to make to move further down the page. lisa -Original Message- From: Sarah Peeke (XERT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 14 April 2005 12:12 PM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility HI all I have just come across a css tip at http://www.htmldog.com/guides/htmladvanced/links/ which involves a css method to render the 'skip navigation' link invisible. My question is: Does anyone else use this method, or another similar technique? Many sites I have seen *retain this link's visibility* despite it being intended (AFAIK) primarily for screen readers. Thanks Sarah -- XERT Communications email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: +61 2 4782 3104 mobile: 0438 017 416 http://www.xert.com.au/ web development : digital imaging : dvd production ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
What about users who rely on keyboards but have sight (users with some form of motor skill or mobility deficiency)? Visible skip menus can be very important for these users. A visible skip link allows them to jump over content or navigation (depending on how the site is set up) and possibly avoid having to tab numerous times to get to the content they need. A skip link is the first tab they will hit when they come to a site. Russ HI all I have just come across a css tip at http://www.htmldog.com/guides/htmladvanced/links/ which involves a css method to render the 'skip navigation' link invisible. My question is: Does anyone else use this method, or another similar technique? Many sites I have seen *retain this link's visibility* despite it being intended (AFAIK) primarily for screen readers. Thanks Sarah ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: Many sites I have seen *retain this link's visibility* despite it being intended (AFAIK) primarily for screen readers. It also helps people who use tabbing navigation. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, russ - maxdesign wrote: What about users who rely on keyboards but have sight (users with some form of motor skill or mobility deficiency)? Visible skip menus can be very important for these users. A visible skip link allows them to jump over content or navigation (depending on how the site is set up) and possibly avoid having to tab numerous times to get to the content they need. A skip link is the first tab they will hit when they come to a site. For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. -- Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3 Rob Unsworth | IT Internet Chairman Ipswich, Australia| http://www.lionsq3.asn.au - ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:31:00 +1000, russ - maxdesign wrote: A visible skip link allows them to jump over content or navigation (depending on how the site is set up) and possibly avoid having to tab numerous times to get to the content they need. A skip link is the first tab they will hit when they come to a site. I've seen a couple of sites with a very nice tab interface whereby the 'skip' link became visible on the first tab, but was hidden if that didnt happen. I think Mike Pepper does it at http://www.seowebsitepromotion.com/ (Hi, Mike!) Lea ~ looking for a permanent position in Brisbane. Got anything? -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Thank you Thierry, Lisa and Russ. Great points - I am new to accessibility, but your replies make great sense. Cheers Sarah :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Hi Rob For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. I have tried pressing the tab key, but the skip menu does not appear. Am I doing something wrong here? Am using a mac, if that makes any difference. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: Hi Rob For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. I have tried pressing the tab key, but the skip menu does not appear. Am I doing something wrong here? Am using a mac, if that makes any difference. Oh Damn, I guess I will have to make it visible again. I have only tested it on FF, IE6 and IE5. -- Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3 Rob Unsworth | IT Internet Chairman Ipswich, Australia| http://www.lionsq3.asn.au - ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
On 14 Apr 2005, at 1:03 pm, Rob Unsworth wrote: For a compromise http://www.lionsq3.asn.au the tab key reveals the skip links. I have tried pressing the tab key, but the skip menu does not appear. Am I doing something wrong here? Am using a mac, if that makes any difference. Oh Damn, I guess I will have to make it visible again. I have only tested it on FF, IE6 and IE5 That one worked fine for me, both with FF nightly and with Safari/OmniWeb. Note for Safari and FF nightly/OS X, to use tabkey to navigate a page, You have to enable full keyboard access in the System Preferences KeyboardMouse. Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **