RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
> New redesign for digital web, looks cool. > > www.digital-web.com > == Actually, in IE 5.x on mac the block of content under the menu tabs are partially covered up by the top of the left hand column, so that it appears very broken up. It looks very nice in NN7, though. -jon harris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Of course, you can always look out next week for "Ten Questions for Andy Budd" - due to go live on Tuesday some time. Russ > ;-) > > I have to admit that I don't get time to post that often so it's not > surprising you didn't know I was on the roster. > > Nick Lo wrote: > >> Ha funny, I've been pointing to... >> >> http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php >> >> ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list >> anyway! >> >> Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to >> the "Tables are bad because..." posts! >> >> Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
;-) I have to admit that I don't get time to post that often so it's not surprising you didn't know I was on the roster. Nick Lo wrote: Ha funny, I've been pointing to... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list anyway! Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to the "Tables are bad because..." posts! Nick Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Ha funny, I've been pointing to... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list anyway! Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to the "Tables are bad because..." posts! Nick Slick! Hill, Tim wrote: New redesign for digital web, looks cool. www.digital-web.com Andy Budd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Slick! Hill, Tim wrote: New redesign for digital web, looks cool. www.digital-web.com Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Tina said > May I ask what sort of "design books" you use for inspiration? and > I'd like to find some sources of "original inspiration" but I don't know > where to look for that. Inspiration can come from absolutely anything... A well laid out article in a magazine. A damn fine press/print ad The front cover of a book a paint chart full of great colours a nifty menu or an architectual newsletter... ... the list could go on for ever almost everything i see these days gets looked at with a view of how i can adapt it for the web. My css and design skills are not great enough as yet to be able to create the sites that i know i will be able to one day, but i have a folder chock full of things i have torn out and stored away for inspiration when that day comes along. :) btw... the finished result will probably never look anything like the "inspiration" but it was enough to get you off and running. Jackie > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
The best place is to go to a good quality bookstore that stocks a range of design-related titles. I could name some in Sydney but that's not very useful for many people on the list ... I'm also on the visiting list of a distributor who specialises in design books who comes around to the studio occasionally to display a range of titles. Here's some titles from the bookshelf next to me ... There are books that focus on one studio's work eg Stefan Sagmeister 'Made You Look' Tolleson Design 'SoakWashRinseSpin' General design collections and annuals eg Graphis Typography (annual of the Type Directors Club) Graphic Design USA (annual of the American Institute of Graphic Arts) Specific design fields eg 'The Best of Brochure Design 07' 'The Power of Paper in Graphic Design' 'Fresh Ideas in Promotion' 'Even More Great Design Using 1, 2 or 3 colours' Magazines eg Communication Arts 'How-To' type books eg 'What is Packaging Design' 'Designing with Web Standards' Check out a good specialty bookstore. Hope this helps. Contact me off list if you need specifics. Peter On 14/05/2004, at 3:44 PM, YoYoEtc wrote: May I ask what sort of "design books" you use for inspiration? I have wondered myself where to get inspiration from. So far, I just scout around the Internet and look for other sites in the same industry or of the same subject matter. However, I tend to think that limits my brain somewhat i.e. when they are all of the same "flavor". I'd like to find some sources of "original inspiration" but I don't know where to look for that. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Tina wrote: > So far, I just scout around > the Internet and look for other sites in the same industry or > of the same > subject matter. I build sites for the government and sticking to sites in the same "industry" or same subject matter, would makes some very uninteresting sites. I tend to take nodes of inspiration (see http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/16.html for the rundown on nodes of inspiration) from a wide variety of sources, personal blogs, CSS Zen garden and almost everywhere else except other Gov sites. > May I ask what sort of "design books" you use for inspiration? I have > wondered myself where to get inspiration from. The book that has influenced me the most in how I "design" sites is Magazine Design That Works: Secrets for Successful Magazine Design by Stacey King, Rockport Publishers. Probably for two reasons: 1. It taught me a lot about grid theory (not being a traditional designer) 2. It mad me think about how to present the information in the best structre. Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
I did a similar thing for a site I am about to design. I have been looking at various sites for ideas re color, layout, features, etc. and created a folder for "sites I admire" in my favorites. This help me narrow down the ideas I could use on the new site. At 02:03 AM 5/14/2004, Nick Lo wrote: As an example with regards to those alistapart things cited above I put them in a mental bookmark filed under...that would be good for the upcoming project X. This same process is done in programming where you build a library (mental or digital) of useful stuff. - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Well to bring it tenuously back on topic... Take a look at some of the features on that page then take a trip to alistapart.com with a checklist: Mountaintop Corners Sliding Doors etc... ...and I forget where I've seen that background quotes idea before. What I'm driving at is not that the designer there has ripped anything off, more that you do build a mental or bookmarked scrapbook of ideas. In the digital web site they COULD have been influenced as much by discovering what can be done safely in CSS as much as what looks good. Design is as much about method as some ethereal gift which is often how it is treated. As Universal Head Peter points out it's often still an agonising process for 'designer people'. I moved into programming web apps as I'd been designing for over 10 years previously and needed a break from other people's opinions and all the back seat designing that you have to deal with (designer as scribe?!). I'm now getting back into it and what's interesting is all the methodology of creative thinking that I'm needing to get back into. As an example with regards to those alistapart things cited above I put them in a mental bookmark filed under...that would be good for the upcoming project X. This same process is done in programming where you build a library (mental or digital) of useful stuff. That said it still takes a certain other thing to get all things looking pretty and ahem... working in CSS (grasping at straws!). Nick We're in danger of getting smacked on the keyboard hands by the List Mum, but I'll quickly say: * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
May I ask what sort of "design books" you use for inspiration? I have wondered myself where to get inspiration from. So far, I just scout around the Internet and look for other sites in the same industry or of the same subject matter. However, I tend to think that limits my brain somewhat i.e. when they are all of the same "flavor". I'd like to find some sources of "original inspiration" but I don't know where to look for that. At 01:16 AM 5/14/2004, Universal Head wrote: While I'm doing this I flip through some of my big collection of design books for inspiration, and bookmark things that seem relevant. Not "I'm going to use this rounded-corner trick" but "I like the way this design uses flat colour or large type next to big spaces". - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
On 14/05/2004, at 2:41 PM, Michael Kear wrote: So I was hoping I'd find out you 'proper' designers have a trick other than "its all in the talent and creative side of your brain, son!" Maybe the trick is to outsource the design to a 'proper' designer :P I forgot to post this link in my response too -- seems relevant and on topic: http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/16.html --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Michael. We're in danger of getting smacked on the keyboard hands by the List Mum, but I'll quickly say: Design is a discipline, as Peter Gifford has said, that benefits from learning, whether (if you are able to teach yourself to "see") by yourself or, usually much better, in a serious learning environment. Peter has mentioned a number of the elements of design, but to understand what they really mean and how they work you need to learn them. Copying others' designs can't teach you this underlying knowledge, though you can start to get a feel for the way designers do things. (That said, dirty little secret is that a huge number of designers buy magazines like Communications Arts, bookmark cool websites, and generally follow the trend-setters, then plunder their work.) But I ask you this: Do you make your own furniture? No. Because there are people out there who know how to do it quicker and better. They've developed their eye for form and structure. They understand texture and balance. They work with it all the time and have years of training, experience and visual memory. They know how to "see" furniture. It's not magic. It's not simply plucking ideas out of the air, but focusing on the communication problem and solving the presentational issues involved. I know you said you have clients with no budgets, but it may cost you less than you think to get a halfway good designer to work you up a mockup (to the brief I mentioned in my last idea -- the tighter the better, to avoid misunderstandings) and from there you can web-standardise it into code. -Hugh Todd I am trying to see if I can learn to improve the process somehow to get better results faster (or is it less slow?) So I was hoping I'd find out you 'proper' designers have a trick other than "its all in the talent and creative side of your brain, son!" * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
"its all in the talent and creative side of your brain, son!" It's easy Mike! See that button on the top right of your keyboard? The one marked "design"? Just press it! ;) Oh OK I'll say something useful. Here's what I do. When coming up with a concept I sit down with a big piece of paper and I write down words. I write down words the client has used to describe their company, product whatever. Words that describe their target audience, what they want to project to their audience etc. Then I get out a Thesaurus and I write down synonyms for those words that inspire me. Then, when I've exhausted this approach, I think about concepts that communicate these words and meanings. While I'm doing this I flip through some of my big collection of design books for inspiration, and bookmark things that seem relevant. Not "I'm going to use this rounded-corner trick" but "I like the way this design uses flat colour or large type next to big spaces". After I have some thumbnail sections of ideas I want to pursue and some notes on the appropriate fonts and colour schemes, only then do I go to the computer and start working with mockups. That's one approach. Here's some other ideas I've gathered from various sources into my notebook: Interviewing the client - what are you trying to communicate, and why? - who needs this information, and why? - what does the audience already know? What does it need to know? - what single, unique, focused message should the audience walk away with after reading or seeing this piece? - what have you done to communicate this information before? - how do you expect your audience to respond? How in turn will you respond to their response? Empty the brain of all information onto paper after the interview Research Process the information - review notes, reorganise info, restate info in a variety of forms, readress the project objective, reword as a set of design criteria. Allow time for the information to marinate in the brain Stefan Sagmeister's Approach 1. Think about the project from any point of view - your mom's, yours, from the point of view of colour, of form - and write each response down on a single index card. 2. Spread all the index cards out on a big table and see if you can find the relationship between the different thoughts. 3. Forget about the whole thing. 4. The idea will strike you miraculously when you least expect it. "Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort. " "Do not think of your faults, still less of others' faults; look for what is good and strong, and try to imitate it. Your faults will drop off, like dead leaves, when their time comes. " "There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey." quotes from John Ruskin 1819-1900 Peter PS I stole the button design on www.cinema4duser.com from shauninman.com Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Justin French said: <<<...But personally, I'd find very little satisfaction drawing inspiration directly from bookmarks. I'd much rather take every pull-quote I've ever seen, throw them all in a blender, and come up with my OWN solution appropriate to the job at hand I know what you mean. That's the approach I've been using up to now. But getting a design is like pulling teeth for me. I know I'm not a designer or an artist (and I don't play one on tv either), but I am trying to see if I can learn to improve the process somehow to get better results faster (or is it less slow?) So I was hoping I'd find out you 'proper' designers have a trick other than "its all in the talent and creative side of your brain, son!" Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
On 14/05/2004, at 1:31 PM, Michael Kear wrote: Then for me, when the time comes to do a brand new site, I find all those ideas vanish from my mind and all I can think of is a boring site just like all the others I've done. It can take AGES to think of a concept for a new site. How do you 'designer people' handle this? Do you keep it all in your head? Or do you have some kind of notebook or snippet system to hold all those neat tricks somewhere for when you can use them another day? When I'm designing / developing a site, my ideas are all usually spawned out of necessity -- like a client request (or general need) for pull-quotes or blockquotes. As a designer, it would then be up to me to design a method for marking up and styling those quotes appropriately for the project/page in question. To do this I would draw on years of web surfing and design work for inspiration, and blend it with the branding and identity of the current project. You might find it useful to bookmark pages which have "cool tricks" you use later (naming them "cool blockquotes" rather than "DigitalWeb"), or even organise a whole bunch of screen grabs in a folderd. But personally, I'd find very little satisfaction drawing inspiration directly from bookmarks. I'd much rather take every pull-quote I've ever seen, throw them all in a blender, and come up with my OWN solution appropriate to the job at hand. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
AH, you're like me Kay - you see something cool then you start looking around for a project to use it on. "Where can I do that? I have to have a site that's ready for re-development again surely!" Then for me, when the time comes to do a brand new site, I find all those ideas vanish from my mind and all I can think of is a boring site just like all the others I've done. It can take AGES to think of a concept for a new site. How do you 'designer people' handle this? Do you keep it all in your head? Or do you have some kind of notebook or snippet system to hold all those neat tricks somewhere for when you can use them another day? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 1:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign > New redesign for digital web, looks cool. > www.digital-web.com Wow. Nice, not really sure about how the different areas of the page "gel" at higher resolutions... but so many nice "bits". The current section indicators are cute, the what's new title rocks, the tabs are cool. And somewhere, SOMEWHERE, by the end of today, I swear I will have pull quotes in little rounded panels. Somewhere :) K. -- Kay Smoljak Senior Developer/QC Leader/Search Optimisation PerthWeb Pty Ltd - http://www.perthweb.com.au/ Ph: 08 9226 1366 - Fax: 08 9226 1375 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
> New redesign for digital web, looks cool. > www.digital-web.com Wow. Nice, not really sure about how the different areas of the page "gel" at higher resolutions... but so many nice "bits". The current section indicators are cute, the what's new title rocks, the tabs are cool. And somewhere, SOMEWHERE, by the end of today, I swear I will have pull quotes in little rounded panels. Somewhere :) K. -- Kay Smoljak Senior Developer/QC Leader/Search Optimisation PerthWeb Pty Ltd - http://www.perthweb.com.au/ Ph: 08 9226 1366 - Fax: 08 9226 1375 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
