Hi all respondees
Ben Said
...it depends if you're talking about page layout or actual
content - ie. is your business name, logo etc being used in a header;
or are you creating a page which lists a bunch of businesses? For the
former I'd simply use a DIV, for the latter a list (maybe a
At 6/4/2007 07:22 PM, Steve Green wrote:
Day after day in this forum some people seem to be hell-bent on abusing the
standards like this? Why?
I think the 'why' is important enough to merit mention; it's not just
a rhetorical question.
Most of us are trying to create the most sensible pages
On 5 Jun 2007, at 3:34 PM, Jackie Reid wrote:
The fact the validator passed it also seemed to me to say that it
could be used in this way. If fieldset can't be used this way why
does it pass validation?
Forgot this point: valid doesn't mean correct, or sensible. It's really
easy to write
Lucien Stals
For a comparison, the w3schools site defines fieldset as The fieldset
element draws a box around its containing elements. And that's the
complete sentence. Note no mention of form controls.
I leave it to others to debate the authority of the w3schools
site, and
it's a
On 5 Jun 2007, at 6:13 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote:
No need to debate it...w3schools is a cr*ppy resource, full stop.
That's an opinion, which of course you're entitled to (happens that I
agree with you) - but I couldn't resist taking a look. And right there
on their Home page:
W3Schools
but that doesn't mean that the resulting document actually makes any sense
whatsoever...
Thank you Patrick. Especially to those using assistive devices.
Kind regards,
Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help
W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert
M.C.P.,
On 6/5/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps our debates would be kinder if we ruminated longer on our
shared plight: abandoned on a barren planet with only fifty kinds of
parts with which to build everything we need.
Well said. In all a very insightful post. I agree, generally
Philip Kiff wrote:
As Felix points out, your current template breaks IE's built-in font resizer
(View - Text Size - Larger/Largest). This problem is caused by your
definition of the default body text size as 14px. The use of “px”
measurements for font sizes is not scalable under Microsoft
On Jun 5, 2007, at 8:09 PM, Designer wrote:
... the htmlbody is ignored by all except IE6
I hope this is a typo. IE 6 ignores this (and NN4 in case you worry)
as it doesn't understand the '' selector. All other browsers,
including IE 7 support the child selector.
Philippe
---
Philippe
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
On Jun 5, 2007, at 8:09 PM, Designer wrote:
... the htmlbody is ignored by all except IE6
I hope this is a typo. IE 6 ignores this (and NN4 in case you worry) as
it doesn't understand the '' selector. All other browsers, including IE
7 support the child
On 5 Jun 2007, at 04:19:38, Lucien Stals wrote:
I in fact did quote the entire sentence.
Yes, but you then dismissed the words controls and labels as being
irrelevant.
For a comparison, the w3schools site defines fieldset as The fieldset
element draws a box around its containing
On 5 Jun 2007, at 12:09:44, Designer wrote:
so the decent browsers work properly (even IE7!)
This is a common misconception. IE7 _cannot_ resize text whose size
is specified in pixels, in precisely the same way that IE6 can't.
The use of the page zoom tool will enlarge or shrink it along
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
But there's then little point in communicating this fact to a list about
Web Stanbdards, as you are clearly advocating something which is in
breach of said standards.
Steady on, Nick. If he wasn't here you wouldn't be able to tell him this
- it's exactly the right
On 5 Jun 2007, at 14:57:44, Barney Carroll wrote:
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
But there's then little point in communicating this fact to a list
about Web Stanbdards, as you are clearly advocating something
which is in breach of said standards.
Steady on, Nick. If he wasn't here you wouldn't
Barney Carroll wrote:
...a deceased squirrel foetus
Wow. What an image.
N
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http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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Nick Gleitzman wrote:
Barney Carroll wrote:
...a deceased squirrel foetus
Wow. What an image.
N
___
I wondered if you kept one on hand, in your office, for purposes of
validation?
--
Bob
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
Kick the auto responder on that persons email or ban them, it's becoming
annoying now!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Designer
Sent: 05 June 2007 19:08
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in
Designer wrote:
Nick Gleitzman wrote:
Barney Carroll wrote:
...a deceased squirrel foetus
Wow. What an image.
N
___
I wondered if you kept one on hand, in your office, for purposes of
validation?
I use it mostly for accessibility tests.
The fur gets a bit
On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:15:39, Designer wrote:
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
This is a common misconception. IE7 _cannot_ resize text whose
size is specified in pixels, in precisely the same way that IE6
can't.
The use of the page zoom tool will enlarge or shrink it along with
the other content of
I know I said I didn't want to post to this again, but some points have
been raised which I just can't help responding to.
I am an advocate of standards. But the standards shouldn't be the first
place we run whenever the way gets unclear. It's been said in this
thread already that there are an
Return Receipt
Your Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
document:
C'mon guys, we all know what the proper use of a Fieldset is.
Does anyone feel that this is going on forever?
So can we use it to group textual information?
Of course we can. We can drive with our feet if we wanted to, doesn't mean
its a good idea.
For Perth based Web Standards people this may be of interest.
6 June (Tonight) 18:00, talks start 18:30
The Velvet Lounge next to the Flying Scotsman pub in Mt Lawley (corner
of Beaufort and Grosvenor Streets) and meet your fellow web
professionals. There’s free food, a bar and each month we
Jackie, you said I really didn't want a whole load of div classes with
headers p tags etc churned out repeatedly down the page. Why not? It is
clearly the most appropriate way to mark up that content. And what would the
use of fieldsets change? You would still have the same quantity of markup
The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related
controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users to
understand their purpose while simultaneously facilitating tabbing
navigation for visual user agents and speech navigation for
speech-oriented user agents. The
I can't generalise about screen readers, but JAWS would read the legend as
if it were any other paragraph i.e. it would not differentiate it from the
other text in the way it does with headers. The user may or may not work out
for themselves that it is the start of a new section of content.
JAWS'
Hi Ben and others,
Here is my own bit of pedanticness...
--
Lucien Stals
Multimedia/Web Developer
Academic Development and Support
Swinburne University of Technology
PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
telephone: +61 3 9214 4474
office: AD223
On 6/06/2007 at 11:27
Yes, I feel that way.
It's like beating a dead...squirrel...
Ely Solano wrote:
C'mon guys, we all know what the proper use of a Fieldset is.
Does anyone feel that this is going on forever?
So can we use it to group textual information?
Of course we can. We can drive with our feet if we wanted
Lucien Stals wrote:
I suspect that the following code...
fieldsetlegendstaff details/legend
dl
dtemail/dtdd[EMAIL PROTECTED]/dd
dtphone/dtdd12345678/dd
/dl
/fieldset
Is perfectly valid, semantic markup which a screen reader would render
just fine.
Logical, no doubt of it. But see Steve
I too would love to see the results of this experiment.
Any takers?
I suspect that the following code...
fieldsetlegendstaff details/legend
dl
dtemail/dtdd[EMAIL PROTECTED]/dd
dtphone/dtdd12345678/dd
/dl
/fieldset
perhaps ... but for the purpose of marking up contact details in a
meaningful
--
Lucien Stals
Multimedia/Web Developer
Academic Development and Support
Swinburne University of Technology
PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
telephone: +61 3 9214 4474
office: AD223
On 6/06/2007 at 1:25 pm, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Lucien Stals
Maybe I used a poor example.
Microformats would certainly be my first choice for this. I just wish
there was *more* software that could use it. And a plugin to add
microformat data into a groupwise client. That would be nice :)
Lucien.
--
Lucien Stals
Multimedia/Web Developer
Academic
JAWS reads legends in 'virtual cursor mode' and in 'forms mode' but it reads
them differently in the two modes.
In 'virtual cursor mode', which is the normal mode of operation for websites
and PDFs, it will simply read the legend when it reaches that element. It
does not announce the element type
Well if we're going to talk about 'pedanticness' it has to be pointed out
that there's no such word; the word you're looking for is 'pedantry'.
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:54:04 +1000, Lucien Stals
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Ben and others,
Here is my own bit of pedanticness...
--
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