Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Cade Whitbourn


The company that I work for at the moment cannot afford to say 'bye bye' to 5% of web 
users (let alone 2%) for the simple fact that 5% represents THOUSANDS of customers all 
wanting to pay us money to provide them with web services.

BTW, You were 'web designing' in 1991...?

 Unfortunately, while we do vaguely know what *most* of the
 users use right now, we don't know at any point, for any
 particular site, what those *specific* users are browsing with,
 and what they will be browsing with in the future.
 Is it really still vague? 
 If we keep thinking like this, will we ever get a standard?
 I realize years ago, it was crazy to say, hey I will only code for  Browser X, 
 because there was such a variety used out there. But lately  it has been quite 
 obvious what the USERS are using (and once again let  me stress out that that does 
 not mean I agree with what they are using)  the two browsers at the top are 
 Internet Explorer and Mozilla, with  Internet Explorer Leading. 
 Cool, time to say bye bye to EVERY other browser that is not within this  range, 
 i.e. the ones that only have a share of 5% or less percent. Let  the top two battle 
 it out, i.e. let's see who the users will choose in  the next two years, after 
 that, bye bye number 2. One browser left, and  we can all code for one browser (or 
 engine/parser if they wised up and  used the same backend but different front-end) 
 and we can all finally  start using those fancy features that we have stayed away 
 from because  they don't work in every browser.
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Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Ryan Christie

I think it's more of a complex situation than that. I'm sort of sick of 
all the browser hoopla as well, and I've only been into designing for 5 
years. Back when I was a consumer in the browser wars, that was a good 
time as well - fun to kick back and watch the dust fly :)

I doubt there will ever be THE BROWSER 1.0 FINAL ... There's too much 
sharky business stuff that goes on behind the scenes for the browsers to 
all work the same. Without some sort of branding, there only would be 
one browser probably. I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn 
violent - so if anyone with more knowledge of that stuff wants to send 
out a verbose email on/offlist to me I'll be happy to turn on sponge 
mode. As I see it, Netscrape VS Internut Exploder was simple brand name 
competition - technically, possession is 9/10's the law as they say. 
More market share, more branding awareness, more business.

Now, at least the browsers are starting to all adopt standards which is 
definitely less of a headache for us as designers and coders. Even 
though they all agree on the standards though, each browser has it's own 
agenda - even Mozilla's Firebird has its own special CSS element 
properties that can be toyed with to do different things. You can see 
them all when using the DOM inspector within the program and loading up 
Computed Style, they all start with -moz from the bottom of the styles 
list up.

The engine deal goes right in hand with the branding - because in order 
to set themselves apart from others, every browser will at least have 
their own tweaked version of a standard engine. I think that right now 
with the rise of standards the big dogs are going to start to flop out 
unless they can keep up with the open source development of the Mozilla 
team. And to their own credit, Netscrape's 7.1 browser is actually very 
pretty and works quite well. Of course, it is driven by Gecko - 
Mozilla's open source web engine.

I dread seeing Microsoft's next IE release in the upcoming year. After 
this long without an update at all, they better be damn well sweating 
over hot keyboards with a new built-from-scratch engine driving the 
circus along. If they still have that same old legacy code plopped in 
there from IE6 I'm giving up on them as far as hope is concerned completely.

Of course, given they still hold top market share, we'll still have to 
support their lousy browser.


Taco Fleur wrote:

Will there ever be such a thing as a Standard Browser Engine/Parser or 
what ever you want to call it?

12 years ago when I first started web design I was already sick of the 
differences between how browsers display and handle things, back then 
I figured that after some time (12 years maybe) everybody would get 
their act together and at least use a default engine/parser for every 

Whats the deal? Is anybody working on this, will it ever happen?

Why do so many designers still use and code for browsers that are not 
within the top highest browser market share?
Isn't it time to say, we now know what the users use (even though we 
don't agree with what they use) and completely forget about the rest?

If we all would do this and set our pride aside, I reckon we might 
have that dream we have come true!

Or am I just babbling away again, and talk about things I have no clue 

*Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072*
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn
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Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???

2003-12-10 Thread Gary Menzel

 I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn

Two words

Market Share

The big companies realised, once the Internet started becoming popular
outside of Universities and large organisations, that the Browser was the
perfect conduit into people's homes (far moreso even than Television).

TV is a very passive medium.  As such, it is much harder to gain peoples
attention and concentration.  Most of us actually don't really concentrate
on what is happening on the TV even when we are sitting in front of it.
Even so, TV had a huge impact on marketting products to people.  Part of
the appeal was from the psychology of subliminal influence.

The web, however, is very different.  The person surfing is generally
engaged in the process 100%.  And psychology has come along again to tell
us that when people are very focussed on something that subliminal
messages can be even more effective.


THAT's why Browser manufacturers want to be THE one on your desktop and
why the Browser Wars still are in full swing.  Because if they can
dominate the marketplace then THEY are the ones in control of how you are
influenced (maybe) and can then charge other people (who want to influence
you) lots of money to use the conduit.

This is why the browser technologies are free.  Because you will end up
paying for them in the products that you buy.

Personally, I think this is a load of fetted dingoes kidneys (TM Douglas
Addams, HHGTTG).  And the Marketting arm of the Sirius Cybernetics
Corporation are just a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first
against the wall when the revolution comes!

Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828

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