RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-19 Thread michael.brockington
Can I just mention, that if you can possibly find the time, then _do_
try and teach things to your colleague; nothing else is as good for
ironing out any issues in your own knowledge as having someone else
saying but why?  This may sound daft, but trust me, it always works
for me.
 
Mike


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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-18 Thread Jermayn Parker

I have just brought the 101 tricks and tips guide by SitePoint and have read
the sample chapters. I also got a free css cheat sheet which could be handy.
I have not yet read or looked at the other books mentioned.



A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good -  based upon their

sample-chapters download – but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here
used them?




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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Tony Crockford

Cole Kuryakin wrote:
Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step “foundation to 
penthouse” curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by 
experience?


Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance 
appreciation to all who care to comment.


I'm guessing, that as a designer, you're a visual learner, so may I 
suggest a different offering by Eric Meyer:


CSS Web Site Design - Hands On Training.
http://tinyurl.com/3yeqyb

60 step by step tutorials, and the accompanying CD has videos.

If you, or your designer are more book learners, then

Stylin with CSS
http://tinyurl.com/2nd2yf

is a good read with a designer slant.

after that there are dozens more good books on mastering CSS.






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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Kay Smoljak

On 3/17/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask – is there a GREAT book out
there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare
bones that both I and my new artist can use?


You're going to get lots of recommendations for great books. I don't
know if there is one book that will suit exactly what you have in
mind, so you may have to invest in a few volumes for your library.

One title that I like a lot, that may be useful if your designer is
used to doing things the old-school table-based way, is Dan
Cederholm's Bulletproof Web Design. It outlines common problems, the
old-school solution, and how the same thing can be done better with
CSS and good markup.

Good luck!
K.

--
Kay Smoljak
business: www.cleverstarfish.com
standards: kay.zombiecoder.com
coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com
personal: goatlady.wordpress.com


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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Matthew Pennell


On 3/17/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask – is there a GREAT book out
 there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare
 bones that both I and my new artist can use?



One book that I've heard great things about for absolute beginners (and that
teaches the right way to do things) is Ian Lloyd's Sitepoint book, Build
Your Own Web Site The Right Way Using HTML  CSS:

http://www.sitepoint.com/books/html1/

I've not read it myself, but I'd absolutely trust Ian to do things the right
way.

Matthew.


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RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Bob Boisvert
Cole,

 

I'm not sure that we can all fully understand CSS especially with browser
technology changing but here are some books that have helped me. Like you, I
haven't had the time to truly dig into it.

 

CSS Mastery by Andy BuddISBN 1-59059-614-5

Site Point HTML Utopia Designing Without Tables by Dan Shafer   ISBN
0-9579218-2-9

Site Point The CSS Anthology by Rachel Andrew ISBN 0-9579218-8-8

Eric Meyer On CSS

More Eric Meyer On CSS 

 

The one that helped me the most I think was HTML Utopia Designing Without
Tables

 

Hope this helps,

Bob

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin
Sent: 03/17/2007 12:48 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Importance: High

 

Hello All -

 

My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I
realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years
after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good - well,
most of the time anyway.

 

I've always been a one-man-band, but now I'm finding myself much busier than
I can handle by myself so I've had to take on another designer who, while
quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily
exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I've got to teach him. And that's
the problem.

 

While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet
validates, I still consider myself a learner as I've never had much time
to really, really, really understand the box model and other fundamentals
that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I've learned what I
know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of
wonderful groups like the WSG.

 

So, I'm at a crossroads. how can I teach something that I don't feel 100%
competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my
freelance artist is calling asking humm, this is breaking. how should I fix
it? To which I respond . Ah, humm. let me get back to you on that - and a
new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help.

 

With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask - is there a GREAT book out
there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare
bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but
hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I
know, but I need a great one, that's very specific about explaining all the
fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away
from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I've been using
conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with
100% success).

 

A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good -  based upon their
sample-chapters download - but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here
used them? 

 

Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step foundation to
penthouse curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by
experience?

 

Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation
to all who care to comment.

 

Cole

 

 

 

 


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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Lee Powell

Hi

I agree with all the comments made so far. The book(s) that helped me  
the most get my head around CSS and it's applied techniques were:


Web Standards Solutions: Dan Cederholm
CSS Mastery, Advanced Web Standard Solutions: Andy Budd
Designing With Web Standards: Jeffrey Zeldman (new version just came  
off the press)


Although the Zeldman book isn't a pure CSS guide it helps anyone  
understand the fundamentals of why they work with CSS instead of old  
FONT tags.


Hope this helps.

Lee


On 17 Mar 2007, at 05:47, Cole Kuryakin wrote:


Hello All –



My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago  
I realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design.  
3 years after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so  
good – well, most of the time anyway.




I’ve always been a one-man-band, but now I’m finding myself much  
busier than I can handle by myself so I’ve had to take on another  
designer who, while quite good at his art, has never really been  
fully and satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So,  
I’ve got to teach him. And that’s the problem.




While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and  
each sheet validates, I still consider myself a “learner” as I’ve  
never had much time to really, really, really “understand” the box  
model and other fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand  
completely by now. I’ve learned what I know just via various  
internet sites and through the help and guidance of wonderful  
groups like the WSG.




So, I’m at a crossroads… how can I teach something that I don’t  
feel 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are  
waiting, and my freelance artist is calling asking “humm, this is  
breaking… how should I fix it?” To which I respond … “Ah, humm… let  
me get back to you on that” – and a new email flies out to the good  
folks in this great group for help.




With that lengthy pre-amble, I’ve got to ask – is there a GREAT  
book out there that steps through the learning process of CSS right  
from the bare bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not  
theoretical stuff, but hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are  
a lot of books out there I know, but I need a great one, that’s  
very specific about explaining all the fundamentals of the box  
model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away from books that  
promote or talk about css hacks however (I’ve been using  
conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these  
problems with 100% success).




A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good -  based upon  
their sample-chapters download – but before I spend US$40 on one,  
has anyone here used them?




Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step “foundation to  
penthouse” curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by  
experience?




Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance  
appreciation to all who care to comment.




Cole










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RE: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-17 Thread Kevin Lennon
Best learning book I have ever seen or owned on CSS was CSS the Missing
Manual by David Sawyer McFarland published by Pogue Press / O'Reilly.  The
book is a great book for beginners especially as it walks you through many
of the real world problems. The thing is it does cover a lot of the Hacks
including the box model hack from IE5

 

Kevin J. Lennon

Lake Area Webs

http://www.lakeareawebs.com

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Powell
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:27 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Importance: High

 

Hi

 

I agree with all the comments made so far. The book(s) that helped me the
most get my head around CSS and it's applied techniques were:

 

Web Standards Solutions: Dan Cederholm

CSS Mastery, Advanced Web Standard Solutions: Andy Budd

Designing With Web Standards: Jeffrey Zeldman (new version just came off the
press)

 

Although the Zeldman book isn't a pure CSS guide it helps anyone understand
the fundamentals of why they work with CSS instead of old FONT tags.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Lee

 

 

On 17 Mar 2007, at 05:47, Cole Kuryakin wrote:





Hello All -

 

My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I
realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years
after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good - well,
most of the time anyway.

 

I've always been a one-man-band, but now I'm finding myself much busier than
I can handle by myself so I've had to take on another designer who, while
quite good at his art, has never really been fully and satisfactorily
exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I've got to teach him. And that's
the problem.

 

While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each sheet
validates, I still consider myself a learner as I've never had much time
to really, really, really understand the box model and other fundamentals
that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now. I've learned what I
know just via various internet sites and through the help and guidance of
wonderful groups like the WSG.

 

So, I'm at a crossroads. how can I teach something that I don't feel 100%
competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my
freelance artist is calling asking humm, this is breaking. how should I fix
it? To which I respond . Ah, humm. let me get back to you on that - and a
new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help.

 

With that lengthy pre-amble, I've got to ask - is there a GREAT book out
there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare
bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but
hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I
know, but I need a great one, that's very specific about explaining all the
fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly stay away
from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I've been using
conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with these problems with
100% success).

 

A number of SitePoint books on CSS seem pretty good -  based upon their
sample-chapters download - but before I spend US$40 on one, has anyone here
used them?

 

Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step foundation to
penthouse curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by
experience?

 

Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation
to all who care to comment.

 

Cole

 

 

 

 


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Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS

2007-03-16 Thread dwain
Cole Kuryakin wrote:
 Hello All –
 
  
 
 My background for the past 27 years has been in design. 6 years ago I
 realized the (financial) necessity to begin learning web design. 3 years
 after that came the next leap into HTML/PHP/CSS. So far, so good – well,
 most of the time anyway.
 
  
 
 I’ve always been a one-man-band, but now I’m finding myself much busier
 than I can handle by myself so I’ve had to take on another designer who,
 while quite good at his art, has never really been fully and
 satisfactorily exposed to the fundamentals of CSS. So, I’ve got to teach
 him. And that’s the problem.
 
  
 
 While my knowledge of CSS has gotten me through each project, and each
 sheet validates, I still consider myself a “learner” as I’ve never had
 much time to really, really, really “understand” the box model and other
 fundamentals that, lord knows, I SHOULD understand completely by now.
 I’ve learned what I know just via various internet sites and through the
 help and guidance of wonderful groups like the WSG.
 
  
 
 So, I’m at a crossroads… how can I teach something that I don’t feel
 100% competent in? But the clock is ticking; clients are waiting, and my
 freelance artist is calling asking “humm, this is breaking… how should I
 fix it?” To which I respond … “Ah, humm… let me get back to you on that”
 – and a new email flies out to the good folks in this great group for help.
 
  
 
 With that lengthy pre-amble, I’ve got to ask – is there a GREAT book out
 there that steps through the learning process of CSS right from the bare
 bones that both I and my new artist can use? Not theoretical stuff, but
 hand-on, simply-put, illustrative? There are a lot of books out there I
 know, but I need a great one, that’s very specific about explaining all
 the fundamentals of the box model all the way up. I want to complexly
 stay away from books that promote or talk about css hacks however (I’ve
 been using conditional comments and IE specific sheets to deal with
 these problems with 100% success).

css the definitive guide by eric meyer.  you can get the book through
amazon or o'reilly press or another local book vendor (maybe).

hth,
dwain


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