Re: [WSG] skip links
Hi Julie - Original Message - From: Julie Romanowski To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Screen magnification users also benefit from skip links. Making these links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users. - - - - - - - - What I've settled for is as follows: div class=skip a href=#content accesskey=SSkip to Main Content/a /div Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also? ?? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
I'm a bit late but here are some good 'skip link' links: http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/ http://juicystudio.com/article/skip-links.php *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
On 29 Oct 2009, at 11:48, designer wrote: Screen magnification users also benefit from skip links. Making these links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users. div class=skip a href=#content accesskey=SSkip to Main Content/a /div Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also? Assuming they know the link is there. If it is styled to as to be invisible or off-screen, then it hurts more than it helps. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Re: [WSG] skip links)
David Hucklesby さんは書きました:
ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:
Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the
accessibility, but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen
readers but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't
define it)
* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities
to the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts
* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.
So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (link
rel=start href=http://www.mysite.com; title=Home Page /link
rel=help ...)
* At least a skip to content link on TOP of your page (means top of
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too,
like those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too
of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically
ideal to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..
* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a
tabindex and a title attribute
* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site
Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe
most the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility /
help page.
Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback
So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the
accessibility.
Great french article:
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.
One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left {
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of
display:none, to set content outside of the screens but keep it
readable by screen readers.
~~~
A very informative post. Thank you.
FWIW If a skip to main content is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...
Cordially,
David
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Thanks :-)
It makes sense to set it visible too but it's not easy.
Even now, unfortunately, most of the websites doing this are people who
care about great accessibility and/or usability.
You will deal with any people (clients - marketing - design) saying for
example:
You don't understand me, the users of my website are teenagers who want
to subscribe for a plan and get a mobile,
Famous fact that 15-25 years old people don't really understand
interface, are all in good health, and 100% capabilities. (ironical)
What seems Killing the user experience for advanced users may not be
for the average people.
So I meant in the worst case, better to have hidden skip links that
nothing ;-) (From my point of view)
For your personal use, if you don't care about the design, there are
some fancy plugins like tidy read
http://www.tidyread.com/ which extracts the main article as text so you
won't need or complain about skip links ;-)
Available for Firefox and IE.
What is funny about link in the html head (
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#h-12.3), i never found
how to use it natively with browsers. Can anyone provide informations
about that please ?
Regards
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Re: [WSG] skip links
Might I suggest article from Webaim.org http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/ Don't forget about the mobility impaired user as well. Nancy On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:36 AM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] skip links
I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] skip links
Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] skip links
spot the typo regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] skip links
A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted people who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links spot the typo regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] skip links
Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question: Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted people who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links spot the typo regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
Mark,
I just add something like this to things that are for mobile/text-only:
style type=text/css media=screen.noscreen { text-index: -3000px;
}/style
a class=noscreen href=#placeSkip Link/a
It's not perfect (keyboard users with a full blown browser will have to
tab through them but won't see the links) but combining that concept
with a little user agent sniffing on the server side of things improve
your odds of satisfying the needs of everyone.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
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On 10/28/09 8:19 PM, Mark Huppert wrote:
Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:
Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav'
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers
regards
Mark
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert
*Sent:* 28 October 2009 23:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
spot the typo
regards
Mark
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
Steve
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation
src=/screens/dot/gif //a
regards
Mark
Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200
T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/
CRICOS Provider #00120C
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *designer
*Sent:* 28 October 2009 13:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* [WSG] skip links
Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav'
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by
screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read
about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is
recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a
bullet-proof approach.
I'd be really grateful . . .
Thanks,
Bob
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RE: [WSG] skip links
Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links are only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing the question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased differently. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question: Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted people who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links spot the typo regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http
RE: [WSG] skip links
I've been always under the impression that sighted users surfing with a keyboard, have it easier to realize if there's a Skip Navigation link (since nothing gets on focus) and it's easier for them to navigate with tab key, so it's not such a burden. I mean, suffering the navigation on a screen reader on every page is painful, but a sighted user can work himself better on the page with a keyboard. That's why I always put a div with the skip to links on top of the document and then move them to the left off the site. Keyboards find them first (though they don't show) and screen readers see them. It's better not to make Skip to navigation visible, since most users won't understand what's that for, and on many cases, they won't even realize what's happening, since the page won't change if you click on it. Anyway, my 2c ;) Cheers Raul www.raulferrer.com http://www.raulferrer.com/ webdesign development _ De: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] En nombre de Steve Green Enviado el: jueves, 29 de octubre de 2009 2:17 Para: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Asunto: RE: [WSG] skip links Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links are only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing the question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased differently. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question: Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted people who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links spot the typo regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mark Huppert Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links Steve One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with 'skip navigation' a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation src=/screens/dot/gif //a regards Mark Mark Huppert Library Systems and Web Coordinator Division of Information R.G. Menzies Building (#2) The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 T: +61 02 6125 2752 F: +61 02 6125 4063 W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/ CRICOS Provider #00120C _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] skip links Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help
Re: [WSG] skip links
You don't skip links, it means you probably don't have a skip link. I've never used IBM's program, but that is what I would assume it is referring to. A skip link is an accessibility feature used to skip over repetitive information like navigation. Here is a good article on them: http://www.jimthatcher.com/skipnav.htm dwain wrote: i'm using ibm's adesigner. i'm getting errors about skip links. how do you skip links? why? dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links
Hi Susan There's been a lot of talk here about skip links, recently I tried to use some of the information in a live beta of the new Sydney PHP Group site (http://sydney.ug.php.net). Basically I went for skip links that would be useful to all visitors I have tho' been looking at aural stylesheets... http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html#speaking-props ...and am wondering whether this could be incorporated with the general idea of hiding skip links for visual users but making them readable to non-visual users: (e.g using visibility : hidden, as display :none causes the box to not be generated.) According to the above link, speak defaults to normal. The other idea I had was to set the #skip to display : none in screen stylesheets and then set it to be rendered in an aural stylesheet. I'm not sure if this will work, straight off the top of my head. How well supported are aural stylesheets? There are some things that might occur with search engine listings: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclientie=utf-8oe=utf-8q=skip+to+content (altho who is going to search for skip to content?) Cheers James Susan R. Grossman wrote: I tend to use top navigation with 2 or 3 column content (and the left content div usually containing specifc info with further links) for most of the layouts of my pages, since this is what so many clients want. Generally speaking (with various exceptions and diferences) reader display of most of these show: top div with logo or graphic horizontal nav div that will show as a vetical list left column div with additional spotlight info and links (often dups of info within navs or content but with by-lines right or center div (depending on 2 or 3 column layout) with page content far right div column if 3 column layout footer div How does the list feel about putting in generalized (not hidden) skip links as an initial div before the header of all page except the home page to allow readers to skip to the content div? One design issue is that the header is no longer at 0, which doesn't bother me - but I don't know how others feel about that either. Or would it be better to build the skip link as part of the top/logo div using hidden? Guess I chould add the caveat that I do a lot of charity (I hate that word) work for small non-profits often disability related Also, either techniqu aside, are peope also adding in a link to an accesibility information page? Are people setting up pages now to explain what tab indexes have been used throughout the site (consitantly of course), etc? I have one set up for the latest donation site, but I don't know if that's going to far? One last thing - what is the feeling on adding accesskey info on title or alt tags? Or in long description tags for those it works for? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on these. Susan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
