Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Michael Persson
discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate - Original Message - From: Andrew Freedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread lisa . kerrigan
- From: Andrew Freedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05/2008 3:26 AM: Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Michael MD
As i remember alt was short for alternative text, to describe images in a website. It is als yuseful for Search ENgine Optimization as its visible for them to also relate them to content, titles and other components of the page. text-only browsers display it. ... It's text for people

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what's the general consensus on the use of null or empty alt strings as per the reasons outlined in the article below? http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/accessible_alternatives.html The choice between alt-text or no alt-text depends entirely on whether an

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Michael MD
So what's the general consensus on the use of null or empty alt strings as per the reasons outlined in the article below? http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/accessible_alternatives.html I don't see the point of the null alt strings. A validator is a tool to help you ... its not

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread David Dorward
On 28 May 2008, at 09:50, Michael MD wrote: I don't see the point of the null alt strings. A validator is a tool to help you ... its not the be all and end all - you need to interpret the results with a bit of common sense. It seems rather pointless and silly to just try to fool the

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Designer
Ted Drake wrote: Sorry but on hover, IE6 will show this is a dog and other browsers will show oh no it isn't -Original Message- Just to confuse the issue, as well as clarify it, this example: img src=../../sitegraphics/dogandlead.gif alt=this is a dog / WILL show the

RE: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Ted Drake
Sorry but on hover, IE6 will show this is a dog and other browsers will show oh no it isn't If your tooltips are really that critical, use the YUI tooltip javascript to get cross-browser compatibility to display the title attribute. You can also style them.

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Rick Lecoat
On 28 May 2008, at 11:31, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Me too. IE/win shows title-text on images when such exists, otherwise it shows the alt-text if such exists. For this reason I quite often use a null-value title attribute alongside filled-in alt text, simply because I don't *want* tooltips

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Designer
Jason Ray wrote: The information in the alt attribute will only display when the image is not available - [snip] The information in the title attribute will display when the pointer hovers over the object or image. Just to confuse the issue, as well as clarify it, this example: img

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Designer wrote: I'm getting confused now - on MY IE6, the title is displayed on hover, not the alt. I was originally testing with my standalone IE6, so I checked on my laptop, (with 'real' IE6) and got the same result! Me too. IE/win shows title-text on images when such exists, otherwise it

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Darren West
Seems like a good idea, any implications? 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28 May 2008, at 11:31, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Me too. IE/win shows title-text on images when such exists, otherwise it shows the alt-text if such exists. For this reason I quite often use a null-value

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Darren West
There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE, however wrong it is, it could be what users expect. I believe Jaws ignores empty attributes so all good there ... 2008/5/28 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Seems like a good idea, any implications? 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Darren West
Rick Lecoat wrote: I agree that that's an argument. But the counter-argument, to my mind, is that I'm *correcting* the behaviour of IE through markup and css (well, ok, not css in this case) to bring it into line with standards compliant browsers, which is what we, ad web designers/developers

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Rick Lecoat
On 28 May 2008, at 12:53, Darren West wrote: There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE, however wrong it is, it could be what users expect. I agree that that's an argument. But the counter-argument, to my mind, is that I'm *correcting* the behaviour of IE through

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Darren West
Rick, what email client are you using? how do you get the 'on 28 may darren wrote ...' and the border-left on the quote? Cheers Darren 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28 May 2008, at 12:53, Darren West wrote: There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE,

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Rick Lecoat
On 28 May 2008, at 13:39, Darren West wrote: Rick, what email client are you using? how do you get the 'on 28 may darren wrote ...' and the border-left on the quote? Cheers Darren Drifting OT now, but it's plain old Apple Mail. The border-left, as you call it, is just Mail's way of

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Darren West wrote: There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE, however wrong it is, it could be what users expect. I believe Jaws ignores empty attributes so all good there ... I do not think one should meddle with a browser's behavior in minor cases like showing alt-text

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Tom Livingston
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 27, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Andrew Freedman wrote: kate provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:21 AM: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate Patrick

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Darren West
ahhh hahaha thats brilliant!! Tom said: How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? are you writing a book? 2008/5/28 Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 27, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Andrew Freedman wrote:

RE: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-28 Thread Jens-Uwe Korff
I don't see the point of the null alt strings. Consider e.g. sponsor images. You don't want to pollute your SEOed page with sponsor keywords, nor is it necessary from an accessibility point of view. Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Andrew Freedman
Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05/2008 3:26 AM: Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? The difference seems very slight to me... Hi

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread kate
The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate - Original Message - From: Andrew Freedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute Tom Livingston

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
kate wrote: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. or...the alt attribute, if you want to correct people... -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Jon Tan
Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05/2008 3:26 AM: Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? The difference seems very slight to me... Hi Tom,

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread dwain
On 5/27/08, Andrew Freedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Livingston provided the following information on 28/05/2008 3:26 AM: Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies'

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Andrew Freedman
kate provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:21 AM: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate Patrick H. Lauke also provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:33 AM: or...the alt attribute, if you want to correct

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Darren West
I'm not sure exactly what the spec says, go read it, but alt stands for alternative so the content would be represented alternatively when say the other content was unavailble. Where as title is meant to provide additional information related to the content such as a title. So img

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread jdreid
Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? The difference seems very slight to me... Hi Tom, Try this link:

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Andrew Maben
On May 27, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Andrew Freedman wrote: kate provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:21 AM: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate Patrick H. Lauke also provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:33 AM:

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread dwain
On 5/27/08, Jason Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The alt attribute should always be included in order to be standards compliant, and accessible the title is optional. some accessibility software i use says it's a good idea to use a title for accessibility reasons. the software is adesigner by

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread Jason Ray
hmm... is accessibility not a feature of standards compliance? I'm forgetting whether the W3C HTML validator will reject img elements without the alt attribute, or if it's just the accessibility validators that do so. Jason On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:55 AM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On

Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute

2008-05-27 Thread dwain
accessibility validators will let you know if you missed an alt attribute and will suggest adding titles where there are either sketchy titles or no titles at all. dwain On 5/27/08, Jason Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm... is accessibility not a feature of standards compliance? I'm forgetting