Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
yes mark, we are a Government entity. Just so you know, I am talking about approving the use of iframes NOT frames in a limited capacity due to specific technical difficulties. The Government guidelines say that online content should be accessible. From what I understand of WCAG2.0, It is possible to make iFrames accessible. Thanks for your interest. Mark Harris w...@tracs.co.nz Sent by: To li...@webstandard wsg@webstandardsgroup.org sgroup.org cc Subject 14/01/2009 04:51 Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames PM[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Please respond to w...@webstandardsg roup.org mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: They are using them to facilitate the menu/header/footer ite,s across a host of applications which sit on a range of differing servers using a rang of differing technologies. I suggested SSI's but that is not possible due to server configuration issues. I think I am going to allow iFrames but with some stipulations. I thought you were a government entity? What do the government guidelines say about frames ~mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** Save time-get your child's immunisation history statement online. NOTICE - This message is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action based upon it. If you received this message in error please notify Medicare Australia immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Medicare Australia. Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On 14/1/09 05:31, mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: They are using them to facilitate the menu/header/footer ite,s across a host of applications which sit on a range of differing servers using a rang of differing technologies. I suggested SSI's but that is not possible due to server configuration issues. I think I am going to allow iFrames but with some stipulations. My company uses IFRAME elements to share headers and footers with partner sites. The biggest problem with this approach is that you have to specify a HEIGHT attribute for the IFRAME. That forces you to make assumptions about the height of the IFRAME content, and those assumptions will inevitably break down under some conditions. (Try bumping up your text size three or four steps and see what happens!) -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Thanks Benjamin. They are using them to facilitate the menu/header/footer ite,s across a host of applications which sit on a range of differing servers using a rang of differing technologies. I suggested SSI's but that is not possible due to server configuration issues. I think I am going to allow iFrames but with some stipulations. Mary-Anne Mary-Anne Nayler Phone: 02 612 46681 Mgr, Design Technical team Mobile: 0402111359 Web Services Section Fax: 02 612 47969 Online Development Branch Email: Business Futures and eClaiming mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au Division Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis bhawkesle...@goo To glemail.com wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent by: cc li...@webstandard sgroup.orgSubject Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] 13/01/2009 06:12 PM Please respond to w...@webstandardsg roup.org On 12/1/09 07:12, mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: I am just wondering what is the general consensus on the use of Frames or iFrames these days. WCAG2.0 is not terribly clear on whether we should or shouldn't be using them. WCAG 2.0 tries to express the principles of web accessibility in a technology independent manner. If you can use frames in consistency with those principles, that's compatible with conforming to WCAG 2.0. Note that the Techniques document for WCAG 2.0 does include some HTML techniques relevant to frames: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H64.html http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H70.html I understand there are usability issues as well as problems with Search Engines. The usability minefield with frames described at - http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html - hasn't disappeared. The interoperability problem hasn't disappeared either. There are still browsers in use - some mobile browsers, Lynx - that can't handle frames. More recently, security-conscious users are being advised to disable iframe support as one measure against clickjacking: http://hackademix.net/2008/09/27/clickjacking-and-noscript http://hackademix.net/2008/09/29/clickjacking-and-other-browsers-ie-safari-chrome-opera/ http://hackademix.net/2008/10/08/hello-clearclick-goodbye-clickjacking/ Likewise the problems with frames for search engines described at the article Nielsen cites: http://www.ehsco.com/opinion/19980209.html appear to still exist today: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=35769 http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=34445 http://searchenginewatch.com/2167901 http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/search/webcrawler/slurp-08.html?terms=frames (although contrast http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/search/webcrawler/slurp-09.html?terms=frames ) I have a client that seems determined to use them despite my best advice. Use them how for what? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** Help us support the Starlight Children's Foundation to grant wishes to seriously ill children this Christmas—make a donation at any Medicare office during December
Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: They are using them to facilitate the menu/header/footer ite,s across a host of applications which sit on a range of differing servers using a rang of differing technologies. I suggested SSI's but that is not possible due to server configuration issues. I think I am going to allow iFrames but with some stipulations. I thought you were a government entity? What do the government guidelines say about frames ~mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On 12/01/2009, at 6:12 PM, mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: I am just wondering what is the general consensus on the use of Frames or iFrames these days. When required, I use HTML 4.01 transitional and iFrames to take advantage of iFrame remoting. Combined with unobtrusive Javascript, I don't see this as a problem at all. There's no hard-and-fast rule, though. Frames and/or iFrames in some situations might be wildly inappropriate. Cheers, -- Nathan de Vries *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Frames/iFrames [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
On 12/1/09 07:12, mary-anne.nay...@medicareaustralia.gov.au wrote: I am just wondering what is the general consensus on the use of Frames or iFrames these days. WCAG2.0 is not terribly clear on whether we should or shouldn't be using them. WCAG 2.0 tries to express the principles of web accessibility in a technology independent manner. If you can use frames in consistency with those principles, that's compatible with conforming to WCAG 2.0. Note that the Techniques document for WCAG 2.0 does include some HTML techniques relevant to frames: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H64.html http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H70.html I understand there are usability issues as well as problems with Search Engines. The usability minefield with frames described at - http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html - hasn't disappeared. The interoperability problem hasn't disappeared either. There are still browsers in use - some mobile browsers, Lynx - that can't handle frames. More recently, security-conscious users are being advised to disable iframe support as one measure against clickjacking: http://hackademix.net/2008/09/27/clickjacking-and-noscript http://hackademix.net/2008/09/29/clickjacking-and-other-browsers-ie-safari-chrome-opera/ http://hackademix.net/2008/10/08/hello-clearclick-goodbye-clickjacking/ Likewise the problems with frames for search engines described at the article Nielsen cites: http://www.ehsco.com/opinion/19980209.html appear to still exist today: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=35769 http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=34445 http://searchenginewatch.com/2167901 http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/search/webcrawler/slurp-08.html?terms=frames (although contrast http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/search/webcrawler/slurp-09.html?terms=frames ) I have a client that seems determined to use them despite my best advice. Use them how for what? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
