Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread Lewis, Matthew
What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating  
your pages.


And there is plenty of We are still moving into our new site...  
please bear with us... stuff that still needs to be written.


Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his comments out of the  
public

view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a  
waste of

everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful  
from the

fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments  
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh  
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear  
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to  
this list

as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.




Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.  
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your  
facts right

before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that development platform as an EXAMPLE of similar  
discussions had

in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew If you have something of value, then  
don't

bring it to the forum

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,  
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like  
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions  
to

learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely  
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are  
still

learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
was

Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and  
Adams views.


If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they  
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards  
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our  
time on

what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a  
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English  
when

replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest  
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back  
when a

conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and  
having a

ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my  
list



Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the  
standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come  
and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would  
appear that

this is exactly what the group is for...

I've mentioned this in another thread, where people get all uppity  
about not
exactly web standards content (I think in that example it was  
discussing

Development Platforms...)

Regardless we are all professionals, and we are here to help, to  
learn and
to keep up to date, so if somebody with slightly less experience  
than you
asks for assistance, what's the harm in giving that assistance? It  
doesn't
cost you anything and you do end up with a grateful developer/ 
designer - and

that's positive networking - again a very big plus for any business.

/endOfRant

Enjoy all :)

David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267

RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start getting
all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was
Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating  
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of We are still moving into our new site...  
please bear with us... stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:

 Well hey everybody...

 It would appear Andrew has decided to take his comments out of the  
 public
 view and turn them personal... Please read..

 On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


 group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


 Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a  
 waste of
 everyone's time and energy.


 Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful  
 from the
 fact that you don't like macs.


 So as one professional to another, please keep your comments  
 constructive at
 least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh  
 platform is
 inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear  
 what you
 have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to  
 this list
 as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


 Andrew


 http://www.andrewmaben.net
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
 instructions.

 

 Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.  
 My
 comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your  
 facts right
 before you start sprouting your mouth off...

 I used that development platform as an EXAMPLE of similar  
 discussions had
 in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

 To paraphrase yourself Andrew If you have something of value, then  
 don't
 bring it to the forum

 Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,  
 and my
 main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like  
 myself
 (and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions  
 to
 learn and to grow as developers...

 If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely  
 used
 and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are  
 still
 learning...

 Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


 David Fuller
 Developer
 magickweb
 Web:http://www.magick.com.au
 Tel:   0434 728 267
 Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
 Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
 was
 Extra white line on the top of my list

 I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and  
 Adams views.

 If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they  
 must be
 accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards  
 debating
 forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our  
 time on
 what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

 Two suggestions;

 [1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a  
 little
 less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English  
 when
 replying;  thus to help others along the way.

 [2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest  
 that
 they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back  
 when a
 conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
 watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

 I will now return to lurking

 Regards

 Ian Chamberlain
 ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and  
 having a
 ball.
 www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


 - Original Message -
 From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my  
 list


 Adam...

 I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the  
 standards
 group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come  
 and gain
 guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would  
 appear that
 this is exactly what the group 

Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread kevin erickson
I have an idea. Let's let go this for now and let the mediator tell us  
when we are off the web standards fuzzy line. No?


Peace to all!

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:55:13 -0400, David Fuller - magickweb  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start  
getting

all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
was

Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of We are still moving into our new site...
please bear with us... stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his comments out of the
public
view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a
waste of
everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful
from the
fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to
this list
as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions.



Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your
facts right
before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that development platform as an EXAMPLE of similar
discussions had
in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew If you have something of value, then
don't
bring it to the forum

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions
to
learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are
still
learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and
Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our
time on
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English
when
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back
when a
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and
having a
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my
list


Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the
standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come
and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS 

Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread Joseph Ortenzi

keep your handbags to yourselves please? looks like you ran off topic.
;-)

As a list reader, it would be helpful to me (and perhaps to others?)  
if discussions were kept as close as possible to Web Standards related  
issues, and kept polite and respectful. can I kindly ask you to take a  
breather from this thread and cool down until tomorrow?


Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this particular  
thread off board?


Thanks in advance.
Joe

On Aug 05, 2008, at 16:55, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start  
getting

all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG]  
Positioning was

Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of We are still moving into our new site...
please bear with us... stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his comments out of the
public
view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a
waste of
everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful
from the
fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to
this list
as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions.



Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your
facts right
before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that development platform as an EXAMPLE of similar
discussions had
in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew If you have something of value, then
don't
bring it to the forum

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions
to
learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are
still
learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and
Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our
time on
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English
when
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back
when a
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager  
thread

watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and
having a
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, 

Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread Andrew Maben

On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:

Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this  
particular thread off board?


Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to  
bring it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy  
people, so I've contacted Russ about it.


Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.





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RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
Actually Andrew I am not here to annoy people what I have said has merit.

 

You are so quick to pass judgment simply because you do not agree with
somebody's point of view.

 

Its actually rather pathetic behaviour. If you cannot accept peoples point
of view that differs from yours, then you clearly should not be part of any
forum system because your going to get that everywhere you go.

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Maben
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:49 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was
Extra white line on the top of my list

 

On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:





Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this particular thread
off board?

 

Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to bring
it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy people, so I've
contacted Russ about it.

 

Andrew

 

http://www.andrewmaben.net

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions.





 


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RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of David Fuller - magickweb
 Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:55 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
 Extra white line on the top of my list
 
 I spend my development time actually working on client sites...
 
 How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start
getting
 all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...

David,

Why sending this to the list? 
I replied *off-list* to one of your post yesterday saying that keeping the
noise to a minimum is something we should all try to do, but you don't seem
to care. I'd agree that the post you replied to should not have been sent to
the list either, but still. 
Please think twice before hitting the send button.

Thank you.

PS: sorry for the extra noise


-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread kevin erickson
You know the saying, 'If you don't like something, ignore it and it will  
go away'? Let's try that here :D
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:48:57 -0400, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:


Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this
particular thread off board?


Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to
bring it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy
people, so I've contacted Russ about it.

Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions.




***
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--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread James Farrell
I just joined today and am considering leaving already.

2008/8/5 Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
  Behalf Of David Fuller - magickweb
  Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:55 AM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
 was
  Extra white line on the top of my list
 
  I spend my development time actually working on client sites...
 
  How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start
 getting
  all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...

 David,

 Why sending this to the list?
 I replied *off-list* to one of your post yesterday saying that keeping the
 noise to a minimum is something we should all try to do, but you don't seem
 to care. I'd agree that the post you replied to should not have been sent
 to
 the list either, but still.
 Please think twice before hitting the send button.

 Thank you.

 PS: sorry for the extra noise


 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-05 Thread Scott Elcomb
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:57 PM, James Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I just joined today and am considering leaving already.

It's not usually like this; in fact I think this is the first time
I've seen flames here.

-- 
 Scott Elcomb
 http://www.psema4.com/
 http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937


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Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-04 Thread Michael Horowitz
In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good 
for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then?


Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
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David Hucklesby wrote:

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:
  

The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and this 
seemed to
work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't know what I
should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around this 
worked.  I'll
be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future




CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-04 Thread Adam Martin
Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group is 
meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting to 
learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort of 
things.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good 
for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then?


Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



David Hucklesby wrote:

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:

The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and 
this seemed to

work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't 
know what I
should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around 
this worked.  I'll

be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future




CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
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RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-04 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would appear that
this is exactly what the group is for...

I've mentioned this in another thread, where people get all uppity about not
exactly web standards content (I think in that example it was discussing
Development Platforms...)

Regardless we are all professionals, and we are here to help, to learn and
to keep up to date, so if somebody with slightly less experience than you
asks for assistance, what's the harm in giving that assistance? It doesn't
cost you anything and you do end up with a grateful developer/designer - and
that's positive networking - again a very big plus for any business.

/endOfRant

Enjoy all :)

David Fuller
Developer
magickweb 
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group is 
meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting to 
learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort of 
things.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


 In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good 
 for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then?

 Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

 Michael Horowitz
 Your Computer Consultant
 http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
 561-394-9079



 David Hucklesby wrote:
 On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:

 The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and 
 this seemed to
 work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

 however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't 
 know what I
 should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around 
 this worked.  I'll
 be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future



 CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
 As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
 depending on what you want to achieve.

 My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
 including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
 for more:

   http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

 Hope this helps.

 Cordially,
 David
 --



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WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-04 Thread Ian Chamberlain
I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they must be 
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards debating 
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our time on 
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a little 
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English when 
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest that 
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back when a 
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread 
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and having a 
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message - 
From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would appear that
this is exactly what the group is for...

I've mentioned this in another thread, where people get all uppity about not
exactly web standards content (I think in that example it was discussing
Development Platforms...)

Regardless we are all professionals, and we are here to help, to learn and
to keep up to date, so if somebody with slightly less experience than you
asks for assistance, what's the harm in giving that assistance? It doesn't
cost you anything and you do end up with a grateful developer/designer - and
that's positive networking - again a very big plus for any business.

/endOfRant

Enjoy all :)

David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group is
meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting to
learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort of
things.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


 In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty good
 for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use then?

 Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

 Michael Horowitz
 Your Computer Consultant
 http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
 561-394-9079



 David Hucklesby wrote:
 On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:

 The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and
 this seemed to
 work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

 however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't
 know what I
 should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around
 this worked.  I'll
 be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future



 CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
 As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
 depending on what you want to achieve.

 My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
 including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
 for more:

   http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

 Hope this helps.

 Cordially,
 David
 --



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RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-04 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his comments out of the public
view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a waste of
everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful from the
fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to this list
as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions.



Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all. My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your facts right
before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that development platform as an EXAMPLE of similar discussions had
in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew If you have something of value, then don't
bring it to the forum

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all, and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions to
learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are still
learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb 
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was
Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they must be 
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards debating 
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our time on 
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a little 
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English when 
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest that 
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back when a 
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread 
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and having a 
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message - 
From: David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would appear that
this is exactly what the group is for...

I've mentioned this in another thread, where people get all uppity about not
exactly web standards content (I think in that example it was discussing
Development Platforms...)

Regardless we are all professionals, and we are here to help, to learn and
to keep up to date, so if somebody with slightly less experience than you
asks for assistance, what's the harm in giving that assistance? It doesn't
cost you anything and you do end up with a grateful developer/designer - and
that's positive networking - again a very big plus for any business.

/endOfRant

Enjoy all :)

David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group is
meant to be a 

Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-03 Thread David Hucklesby
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:
 The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and this 
 seemed to
 work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

 however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't know 
 what I
 should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around this 
 worked.  I'll
 be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future


CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
--



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Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-02 Thread Michael Horowitz
The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and 
this seemed to work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in 
my image. 

however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't 
know what I should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in 
hacking around this worked.  I'll be happy to get feedback on better 
techniques for the future


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Al Sparber wrote:

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I a dealing with a different issue.  I am just having above my menu 
list a time barely visable white line occurring.  Site XHTML and CSS 
both validate.  Any ideas what to look for.  If you want to look it 
is at horowitzfamily.net.


#mainNav{
   position: relative;
   top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
  position: relative;
  bottom: 5px;
}

In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited 
above could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are 
positioning like that as it would be better to see a live test page.


Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic



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