RE: [WSG] Site critique and problem - www.mondotron.com

[Mondo | Mondotron]

Hi Angela

The ad banner is intentionally meant to slide underneath  the logo - I
wanted to keep the layout as fluid as possible, so the page width should
always be 100% occupied - the ad banner going under the logo was chosen as
I'd rather not have the logo obscured in any way.

You did highlight to me a glitch on the front page - I'd used the default
Google image search code for the form, and the width of the input box was
forcing a horizontal scrollbar [Mental Note: always double check default
code :)] - thx.

The Flash element is however 762px wide, so that is never going to allow a
lack of scrollbars on an 800 x 600 window unfortunately.

Nettio

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ricci Angela
Sent: 28 February 2005 09:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site critique and problem - www.mondotron.com



Hi,

Your layout is not "extensible". If you have a 800x600 resolution, the 
pub
banner goes underneath the "Mondotron" logo box, and you'll have a
horizontal scroll. Make one of the columns width in percentage so its size
will be adapted for the resolution.

In boca al lupo !
Angela Ricci





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RE: [WSG] Site critique and problem - www.mondotron.com

[Ricci Angela]

Hi,

Your layout is not "extensible". If you have a 800x600 resolution, the 
pub banner goes underneath the "Mondotron" logo box, and you'll have a 
horizontal scroll. Make one of the columns width in percentage so its size will 
be adapted for the resolution.

In boca al lupo !
Angela Ricci

-Message d'origine-
De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la
part de Mondo | Mondotron
Envoyé : dimanche 27 février 2005 22:28
À : wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Objet : [WSG] Site critique and problem - www.mondotron.com


Hi all

Long term reader / first time poster - just about to launch a new site:

http://www.mondotron.com

and we'd appreciate any critique.

The site enables users to generate free wallpaper/background images for
phones/PDAs/messaging applications through the use of a Flash interface.

Also, there's a small problem with Firefox 1.0 - a colleague gets a problem
with a file upload button on the http://www.mondotron.com/design.php page,
replicated at:

http://www.mondotron.com/file-upload-button.gif

The actual button appears as a small block - haven't been able to replicate
it on other machines with same Firefox version.

Thanks!

Nettio

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Zulema]

Debra Reese wrote:
Hi List Members!
Could anyone spare a moment to give some general comments about a site 
I am working on?

The site is:
http://marketstreetgrill.net
I'd like to hear from willing Mac users. I am working on a PC.
This is my first public critique ever, so please don't lambaste me for 
any glaring errors. I want to improve, so I'll appreciate your honest 
constructive criticism.
Please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Debra

my one small suggestion is to make it noticeable that RESERVATION takes 
a user to another site.  An icon perhaps? or another color for that 
link? just irks me that i'm taken to another website. 

it might not be under your control (?) the security of that other site 
however--as J. Colon suggested, it also puts people off.

other then that, site is great!
regards,
Zulema
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Z u l e m a  O r t i z
W e b  D e s i g n e r
email   : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website : http://zoblue.com/
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
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RE: [WSG] Site Critique

[Peter Goddard]

Hi Debra

Overall, a nice design, just one point. In IE6 win xp, the background
image/floorplan in the content area moves when switching between high
contrast/low contrast. I haven't looked into why, no time right now, but
when this has happened to me it's been a background positioning issue.

Good work!

Regards

Peter

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Debra Reese
Sent: 19 February 2005 04:05
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique

Hi List Members!
Could anyone spare a moment to give some general comments about a site I

am working on?

The site is:
http://marketstreetgrill.net

I'd like to hear from willing Mac users. I am working on a PC.
This is my first public critique ever, so please don't lambaste me for 
any glaring errors. I want to improve, so I'll appreciate your honest 
constructive criticism.
Please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Debra


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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[John D Wells]

Debra--
Site design looks very good on my Mac (FF 1.1), and good but slightly 
different in IE. However, I would suggest that you validate both your 
XHTML and CSS before addressing any layout bugs you may hear about, 
since you do have some errors.  After that, consider a couple of 
things:

1. In your top navigation, you use vertical pipes plus nbsp's to space 
them apart, but I suggest that you consider a more semantic 
alternative. Give padding to your li items to space them apart, and 
borders to create the vertical pipes. And if, for example, you assign 
border-right values to each item, then simply zero out the border for 
your last navigation item, and you'll be set (ex: #topnav li.last { 
border-right-width: 0px;}).

2. I like the ability to switch from low to high contrast, but the 
layout actually shifts when doing so. I'd address this.

3. When I increase the text sizing, your masthead image moves very 
little, so it doesn't take many size jumps to start overlapping page 
elements. Text sizing is always a balancing act, but I just wanted you 
to consider the issue.

HTH!
-john
On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:05 PM, Debra Reese wrote:
Hi List Members!
Could anyone spare a moment to give some general comments about a site 
I am working on?

The site is:
http://marketstreetgrill.net
I'd like to hear from willing Mac users. I am working on a PC.
This is my first public critique ever, so please don't lambaste me for 
any glaring errors. I want to improve, so I'll appreciate your honest 
constructive criticism.
Please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Debra
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Jorge Colon]

When I clicked on the reservation link I came to a page that where it asked
me to put my reservation information and my credit card details. One huge
error that I noticed was that the little pad-lock didn't show up at the
lower-right corner of my browser. If I were a customer coming to this page I
would immediately leave because of that.
- Original Message - 
From: "Debra Reese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:05 PM
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique


> Hi List Members!
> Could anyone spare a moment to give some general comments about a site I
> am working on?
>
> The site is:
> http://marketstreetgrill.net
>
> I'd like to hear from willing Mac users. I am working on a PC.
> This is my first public critique ever, so please don't lambaste me for
> any glaring errors. I want to improve, so I'll appreciate your honest
> constructive criticism.
> Please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Debra
>
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
>
>



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Levi]

Overall, it is a nice site. I like the tone.. it is elegant and soft. 
There are a few key things that "if I were you" I would work
on or change:

â Banner

The blurry banner image actually hurt my eyes enough that
when first when to the page I had to change back to another
window, because my eyes were spasming. I had to spend the
rest of my time there trying to avoid looking at it. I am not trying
to suggest I don't like the banner or the concept of it, but I was
physically bothered by it. Maybe it is just me (I am a little sick
at the moment).

â Content Focusing

Maybe it was because of my issue with the banner but I had
trouble knowing where I should start reading. My eyes didn't
automatically go to a title or a paragraph. The reason I think is
because the header text way too subtle. It just melts into the
background. I would like to have titles to draw my eyes to them.
As the viewer, I don't know what to read, there is a lot to look at,
I want you to show me. I don't believe the site is doing that right
now. 

For example, the menu. each time on the menu should be a different,
and easier to read, color then the description of it. Having it all caps
and one font pt or so larger really doesn't help the eye break
them apart enough. It should be as easy as picking an apple from
and orange. Right now it feels like picking a honeydew melon from
a musk melon...
in other words, the subtleness is ruining the readability. You can
change/fix that by playing with colors and spacing. I like the spacing
so I suggest you just work with the colors a bit

hope this helps you with ideas to improve
:)



PS: I dont think spasming is a word

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:05:00 -0800, Debra Reese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi List Members!
> Could anyone spare a moment to give some general comments about a site I
> am working on?
> 
> The site is:
> http://marketstreetgrill.net
> 
> I'd like to hear from willing Mac users. I am working on a PC.
> This is my first public critique ever, so please don't lambaste me for
> any glaring errors. I want to improve, so I'll appreciate your honest
> constructive criticism.
> Please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -Debra
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
>
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Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Christian Sonne]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 10:52:29PM -0500, David Laakso wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:24:10 +1100, tristan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >ALA has an article  that  
> >is very good. It uses an alternative method to JS and has a small bit of  
> >JS as backup (for IE i think). This will work on all browsers except IE  
> >+ JS turned off. As far as i know this is the most valid and  
> >cross-browser compatible method.
> >
> >Sam Hutchinson wrote:
> >
> 
> A *fix* that excludes Internet Explorer is not a solution. Or is it?
> 
(remember, it's only IE WITHOUT javascript that is excluded, but then
again, a js-dropdown wouldn't exactly work there either :) )

The article on alistapart is actually the 'old' version of
http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ , and I've added
konqueror-support (afaik without removing support for anything else)
here: http://geeksbynature.dk/~cers/css/suckerfish/

there are however still a few other problems detailed here:
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/50.php#comments
mostly with fixes enclosed

-- 
Christian Sonne 
Stud. scient. math-phys at University of Copenhagen
-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
GM/S/CS/O d? s: a--->? C++ UL++>$ P+ L++ E--- W++ N o@ K? w !O M-- V?
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Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[David Laakso]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:24:10 +1100, tristan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ALA has an article  that  
is very good. It uses an alternative method to JS and has a small bit of  
JS as backup (for IE i think). This will work on all browsers except IE  
+ JS turned off. As far as i know this is the most valid and  
cross-browser compatible method.

Sam Hutchinson wrote:
Thanks David.
Altering my sizing options now, and many thanks for your feedback.
RE "You may(?) want to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS
disabled browser..."
- what is evryone's opinion?
I do have plain text links at the footer of the page and users will be  
able
to get around the main site with JS switched off. Is this just a step  
too
far or is it a worthy change? If so, what method is suggested for  
delivering
valid drop downs WITHOUT js?

A *fix* that excludes Internet Explorer is not a solution. Or is it?
Best,
David
--
http://www.dlaakso.com/
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[tristan]

ALA has an article  that 
is very good. It uses an alternative method to JS and has a small bit of 
JS as backup (for IE i think). This will work on all browsers except IE 
+ JS turned off. As far as i know this is the most valid and 
cross-browser compatible method.

Sam Hutchinson wrote:
Thanks David.
Altering my sizing options now, and many thanks for your feedback.
RE "You may(?) want to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS
disabled browser..."
- what is evryone's opinion?
I do have plain text links at the footer of the page and users will be able
to get around the main site with JS switched off. Is this just a step too
far or is it a worthy change? If so, what method is suggested for delivering
valid drop downs WITHOUT js?
 


--
tristan
http://www.roseability.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Will Jensen]

Just noticed your favicon does not show in any browser on my Mac and PC...could be my problem, but get all other icons on other sites.

Your page disappeared moments ago, so cannot offer more advice. Presume you're working on it.


Will Jensen
Moscow, Russia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Dec 10, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Sam Hutchinson wrote:

Thanks David.

Altering my sizing options now, and many thanks for your feedback.

RE "You may(?) want to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS
disabled browser..."

- what is evryone's opinion?

I do have plain text links at the footer of the page and users will be able
to get around the main site with JS switched off. Is this just a step too
far or is it a worthy change? If so, what method is suggested for delivering
valid drop downs WITHOUT js?

SH





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 01:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your
worst...


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:53:12 -, Sam Hutchinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Currently looking into all the suggestions offered, so thanks :)
Much oblidged to all list members who offered assistance.

The page has now moved to:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/steady.php

It also now validates fully via W3C and is working cross browser.

The **only** glitch I seem to ge getting in testing now is in firefox:


XP 1280 native resolution LCD:
Sorry, can't fix my own  stuff, much less anyone else's. Nevertheless,
just thought you might want to know:
You're looking good in Opera7.54 now; however, she's breaking a litte at
120% zoom-- #FFF text in header dropping into menu, the quote in header
breaks a little, and the container breaks at bottom of the page.

Experienced same breaking problems in 1E6.0 at text size "largest" as in
Opera.
I normally use IE for testing purposes only, and then at security setting
at "High," which disables JavaScript among other things. You may(?) want
to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS disabled browser...

Best,

David






--
http://www.dlaakso.com/

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Felix Miata]

Sam Hutchinson wrote:
 
> ...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
 
> So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
 
> Been beavering away on a new site:
> http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

Stale link. Good thing for redirect page.
 
> -still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?
 
> -real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
> into filling it with content...
 
> Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?

Yes, the red background is much too much, especially since it takes up
SO much viewport if I maximize my 1400x1050 display, about 50%.

My default Mozilla font is 22px. I maximized from normal window size
expecting the content width to widen enough to fix itself, which it
didn't. The dropdown menus wrap to the next line because they don't fit
in your allotted width. If e.g. I open the schools menu, the dropdown
shows:

Touring
Productions
Books & Publications
Resource Packs
(can't tell, because it's about 90% cut off at the bottom)

.sections seems to be your primary content. Why is the text there so
small? Can anyone actually read it after selecting your smaller, thus
making the effective size 60%?

When I select your bigger to make it big enough to read, both the main
title and the subtitle wrap and obscure your menu, your date takes 3
lines to display, your blue link text above the legal mumbo jumbo that
hasn't wrapped because it doesn't fit in the allotted width drops
halfway down onto the same color background below, and the rest of that
links row is invisible until mouseover.
-- 
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the
Father except through me."John 14:6 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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RE: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Sam Hutchinson]

Thanks David.

Altering my sizing options now, and many thanks for your feedback.

RE "You may(?) want to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS
disabled browser..."

- what is evryone's opinion?

I do have plain text links at the footer of the page and users will be able
to get around the main site with JS switched off. Is this just a step too
far or is it a worthy change? If so, what method is suggested for delivering
valid drop downs WITHOUT js?

SH





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 01:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your
worst...


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:53:12 -, Sam Hutchinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Currently looking into all the suggestions offered, so thanks :)
> Much oblidged to all list members who offered assistance.
>
> The page has now moved to:
> http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/steady.php
>
> It also now validates fully via W3C and is working cross browser.
>
> The **only** glitch I seem to ge getting in testing now is in firefox:
>

XP 1280 native resolution LCD:
Sorry, can't fix my own  stuff, much less anyone else's. Nevertheless,
just thought you might want to know:
You're looking good in Opera7.54 now; however, she's breaking a litte at
120% zoom-- #FFF text in header dropping into menu, the quote in header
breaks a little, and the container breaks at bottom of the page.

Experienced same breaking problems in 1E6.0 at text size "largest" as in
Opera.
I normally use IE for testing purposes only, and then at security setting
at "High," which disables JavaScript among other things. You may(?) want
to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS disabled browser...

Best,

David






--
http://www.dlaakso.com/

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[David Laakso]

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:53:12 -, Sam Hutchinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

Currently looking into all the suggestions offered, so thanks :)
Much oblidged to all list members who offered assistance.
The page has now moved to:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/steady.php
It also now validates fully via W3C and is working cross browser.
The **only** glitch I seem to ge getting in testing now is in firefox:
XP 1280 native resolution LCD:
Sorry, can't fix my own  stuff, much less anyone else's. Nevertheless,  
just thought you might want to know:
You're looking good in Opera7.54 now; however, she's breaking a litte at  
120% zoom-- #FFF text in header dropping into menu, the quote in header  
breaks a little, and the container breaks at bottom of the page.

Experienced same breaking problems in 1E6.0 at text size "largest" as in  
Opera.
I normally use IE for testing purposes only, and then at security setting  
at "High," which disables JavaScript among other things. You may(?) want  
to consider an alternative menu for those using a JS disabled browser...

Best,
David


--
http://www.dlaakso.com/
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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THANKS AND HELP!? RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Sam Hutchinson]

Currently looking into all the suggestions offered, so thanks :)
Much oblidged to all list members who offered assistance.

The page has now moved to:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/steady.php

It also now validates fully via W3C and is working cross browser.

The **only** glitch I seem to ge getting in testing now is in firefox:

- The margin top is ignores or overwridden by FF - I have been searching for
a fix to this and the only one that nearly worked was setting the BODY
FONT-SIZE to :0, however, that obviously kills the rest of the text !!
*STUCK*

The files are at:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/steady.php
& http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/scripts/layout.css
..should anyone be bored enough.

Also, with it being friday, anyone want to see the best website ever? :
http://www.redesigns.org/
Purists WILL cringe. UGK.

Cheers all

Sam



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Paul Novitski
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 07:29
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...


At 10:19 AM 12/9/04, Sam Hutchinson wrote:
>...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
>http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm


Sam,

Action Transport looks like a great project!  Here are some very quick
comments:

I suggest making the left-hand thumbnails redundant links to each section,
so that you can navigate either by clicking on "read more" or by clicking
on the image next to it.

Your use of the same coloration for links and headlines is
confusing.  Better I think to flag links uniquely so the visitor can learn
quickly what text is active and what isn't.

The Birdbox image has fallen down below the left column, probably because
you haven't allowed enough room for it to float next to the left col.  Try
counting your pixels more carefully, or perhaps better yet design your
layout more loosely so it won't break as easily.

I find the white text on red background ("I was right to trust Action
Transport...") too difficult to read.

I find the slowly unfolding nav submenus clever and irritating, and show
off someone's javascript tricks more than they show off a concern for the
site visitor.  I would greatly reduce the unfold duration or scrap it and
just let the submenus pop down instantly.

When I hover over items in your right-panel nav menu, the text disappears
(turns white?).

Resizing text larger in Firefox (whether using FF's controls or the a+
control on your page) garbles your page heading and renders the nav menu
unusable.

Personally I find the stark red & purple a turn-off, but that's personal
and I suspect I'm not your target audience.

Glancing at the front page I did catch a typo:  "How can you get involed?"
missing a v.

Have fun
Paul

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Czeslaw Liebert]

i agree that using the same color for the links and the headlines is 
confusing ( i tried to click on the headline when i saw the "read more" link)

when clicking on a link in the drop-down menu for the first time the links 
slide a bit (a few pixels) to left; looks like you have to re-look your css 
for :hover and :visited

personally i do not like drop down menus. but this is very subjective one...
the js used for resizing text is, hm.., acting strange; when you first 
choose to enlarge the font and then choose to do the oposite, the "-a" 
changes the font from +1 to -1, not to 0; or is it supposed to work that way ?

i strangely like the color scheme: purple and red...
At 19:19 2004-12-09, you wrote:
...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
Hello again all,
Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm
.
---
Czes³aw Liebert
http://www.78and85.com/
tel. (+48) (0) 504 425 892
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Paul Farrell]

> -still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?

I presume you have the site looking/working how you want it in another
browser (IE at a guess) ?
I think you will find it easier (and less frustrating) if you develop for
Firefox then debug other/lesser browsers.

Just a tip that has proved invaluable to me.


> ...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
> 
> So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
> 
> Hello again all,
> 
> Been beavering away on a new site:
> http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm
> 
> -still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?
> 
> -real reason for this post is a site critique before I go 
> steam-rollering into filling it with content...
> 
> Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?
> 
> Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.
> 
> Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml & css.
> 
> Cheers ya'll

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Paul Novitski]

At 10:19 AM 12/9/04, Sam Hutchinson wrote:
...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

Sam,
Action Transport looks like a great project!  Here are some very quick 
comments:

I suggest making the left-hand thumbnails redundant links to each section, 
so that you can navigate either by clicking on "read more" or by clicking 
on the image next to it.

Your use of the same coloration for links and headlines is 
confusing.  Better I think to flag links uniquely so the visitor can learn 
quickly what text is active and what isn't.

The Birdbox image has fallen down below the left column, probably because 
you haven't allowed enough room for it to float next to the left col.  Try 
counting your pixels more carefully, or perhaps better yet design your 
layout more loosely so it won't break as easily.

I find the white text on red background ("I was right to trust Action 
Transport...") too difficult to read.

I find the slowly unfolding nav submenus clever and irritating, and show 
off someone's javascript tricks more than they show off a concern for the 
site visitor.  I would greatly reduce the unfold duration or scrap it and 
just let the submenus pop down instantly.

When I hover over items in your right-panel nav menu, the text disappears 
(turns white?).

Resizing text larger in Firefox (whether using FF's controls or the a+ 
control on your page) garbles your page heading and renders the nav menu 
unusable.

Personally I find the stark red & purple a turn-off, but that's personal 
and I suspect I'm not your target audience.

Glancing at the front page I did catch a typo:  "How can you get involed?" 
missing a v.

Have fun
Paul 

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[haggis]

Hello Sam;
It would be a really good idea to validate your document first. There are 44 
errors in your markup including a second "doctype" with an "xml" 
declaration! Fix those and I'll bet most of your problems will go away ... 
:o)
HTH's ...
Bill.

William Haggerty
VWH Web Services
http://vwh.ca
- Original Message - 
From: "Sam Hutchinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...


...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
Hello again all,
Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm
-still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?
-real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
into filling it with content...
Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?
Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.
Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml & css.
Cheers ya'll
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RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

[Ted Drake]

Hi Sam
I couldn't tell if the disjointed, oddly overlapping elements were intentional 
or not. It looks like you have a conflict in your width or margins which make 
the banner on the right drop below the content on the left.  The scattered 
links on the right look like something is supposed to happen with them but the 
style is missing. Why are you duplicating the top nav below the header? I'm 
looking at it in firefox 1.0/win. The white text in red bar is difficult to 
read.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: Sam Hutchinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...


...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)

So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*

Hello again all,

Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

-still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?

-real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
into filling it with content...

Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?

Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.

Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml & css.

Cheers ya'll


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Re: [WSG] Site critique please

[Lyn Patterson]

Thanks, Steve
I see what you mean (1280 x 1024) but don't know how to counteract this. 
I have the image set  to " repeat-y" and the  background colour set to 
"white" to blend in with the far right of the image.  It looks like the 
image is repeating.

Kind regards
Lyn
Steve Winter wrote:
Lyn,
It may be worth your taking a look at the site with a reasonably high
resolution set...some of the background images don't work so well (IMO) at
high resolutions (eg 1280 x 1024)
Cheers
Steve
 

 

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Re: [WSG] Site critique please

[Steve Winter]

Lyn,

It may be worth your taking a look at the site with a reasonably high
resolution set...some of the background images don't work so well (IMO) at
high resolutions (eg 1280 x 1024)

Cheers
Steve

> 
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >Would very much appreciate  feedback as to any problems or mistakes. 
> >Thank you.
> >
> >www.mwg.green.net.au/testpages/mwgindex.html
> >
> >Lyn
> 
> 
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RE: [WSG] Site critique please

[Ted Drake]

Once again, the everpopular dl list to the rescue



JANUARY
No meeting this month. First meeting for the year will be 
Tuesday
15 February.

Our speaker will be member and
well-known local amateur botanist
Peg Foreman


This would be more proper than having all of the inline styles and br tags. It 
also gives you the flexibility to add colors and other styles.

Ted



JANUARY


No
meeting this month. First meeting for the year will be Tuesday
15 February.


Our speaker will be member and
well-known local amateur botanist
Peg Foreman






-Original Message-
From: Lyn Patterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 3:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Site critique please


Hi everyone

Would very much appreciate  feedback as to any problems or mistakes. 
Thank you.

www.mwg.green.net.au/testpages/mwgindex.html

Lyn


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Re: [WSG] Site critique please

[standards]

Hi Lyn,

I really like the color scheme and navigation! Excellent use of white space.

My only suggestions would be to export what appears to be a backgound
image as a jpg because it's a gradient and if you look close enough you'll
notice that it's producing a banding effect (ripples), which detracts from
it's appeal. Also, the "Welcome" text looks amateurish, and centering the
first and last paragraphs under the "Welcome" text looks awkward.

Nice Job!

Respectfully yours,
Mario


> Hi everyone
>
> Would very much appreciate  feedback as to any problems or mistakes.
> Thank you.
>
> www.mwg.green.net.au/testpages/mwgindex.html
>
> Lyn
>
>
> **
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Re: [WSG] Site critique please

[Damian Sweeney]

I like the design.
You're getting a couple of CSS validation errors. Also, I think you 
should be consistent in the positioning of your main menu. If you 
need the left column for sub-navigation inside the site, then use the 
horizontal style on the home page as well.

Damian
Hi everyone
Would very much appreciate  feedback as to any problems or mistakes. 
Thank you.

www.mwg.green.net.au/testpages/mwgindex.html
Lyn

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Jeroen Visser [ vizi ]]

Laurie Keith wrote:
Hi,
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
http://www.createwith.com
Hi Laurie,
Others have cracked down on the Flash thing, so I'll focus on some other 
issues. Basically, it's a clean, neat site, but it has some problems:

- The site doesn't show the usual 'hand' cursor when hovering a link. 
While this may look cool at first, it is a serious usability problem. 
The hand cursor is the single most effective way to say: 'this is a link'.

- The scrollbar on the Press page is a bit 'under designed'. :-) If you 
choose to use Flash, make the scrollbars blend in with the overall 
design; a standard Windows bar just is out of place, so it seems.

- Why the arrow in the top right? Why not maximize the width of the 
Flashmovie in the first place? Bonus: it looks better, too.

- The small type in the portfolio sections (the text under the images) 
is pretty hard to read; I'd suggest to (a) increase the font size, or to 
(b) take a lighter weight _and_ to make the type pitch black, or to (c) 
disable anti-aliassing for that type.

- The placement of the submenu is not really logical. I understand the 
design choice to place the menus on top of each other, but I'm a graphic 
designer, so that doesn't really count. ;-) My guess would be that the 
feedback (I click on Work and there's a submenu for this 'Work' section) 
would be much stronger if the menus would be next to eachother, or if a 
line or other visual clue would connect the highlighted menu-item with 
its submenu in the bottom half.

The portfolio is pretty neat, so it's a pity the rest of the puzzle 
doesn't really fall in place to convince people to stay and click around 
(and that's what this site needs, right?).

Jeroen
--
vizi fotografie & grafisch ontwerp - http://www.vizi.nl/
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Joseph Lindsay]

Just to add my 2c to the weight of opinion, I'm on a broadband
connection and I had to wait too long.  I'm glad I'm not on dial-up.


On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:58:32 -0800, Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've not read the entire thread, someone has probably mentioned this.
> The execution of this site could have been done with (X)HTML/CSS. I
> love FLASH, and am putting the finishing touches on a MADLIBS XML
> application/game.
> 
> When ever considering flash, it is always an ethical question. Not can
> we, but should we. An application as robust as flash is very seductive,
> especially when weighing the struggle that is sometimes CSS. Often at
> midnight when confronted with float issues in MAC IE 5.0, I've heard
> the siren song of FLASH.
> 
> So ogle the CSS awards sites, post your questions, and find something
> hard to bite down on. The more we demand, by use, the proper
> implementation of standards the more refined another tool becomes.
> 
> C
> 
> On Friday, November 12, 2004, at 04:33 AM, Laurie Keith wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> 
> >
> > If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an
> > honest
> > evaluation on our new corporate web site.
> >
> > http://www.createwith.com
> >
> > I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision
> > makers
> > with some independent comments from other professionals.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Laurie Keith - Senior Developer
> >
> >
> > __
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> >
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Chris Kennon]

Hi,
I've not read the entire thread, someone has probably mentioned this. 
The execution of this site could have been done with (X)HTML/CSS. I 
love FLASH, and am putting the finishing touches on a MADLIBS XML 
application/game.

When ever considering flash, it is always an ethical question. Not can 
we, but should we. An application as robust as flash is very seductive, 
especially when weighing the struggle that is sometimes CSS. Often at 
midnight when confronted with float issues in MAC IE 5.0, I've heard 
the siren song of FLASH.

So ogle the CSS awards sites, post your questions, and find something 
hard to bite down on. The more we demand, by use, the proper 
implementation of standards the more refined another tool becomes.

C



On Friday, November 12, 2004, at 04:33 AM, Laurie Keith wrote:
Hi,
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an 
honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.

http://www.createwith.com
I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision 
makers
with some independent comments from other professionals.

Regards,
Laurie Keith - Senior Developer
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Francesco]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:22:15 +, "Paul Connolley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> 
> On 12 Nov 2004, at 12:33, Laurie Keith wrote:
> 
> > If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an  
> > honest evaluation on our new corporate web site.
> 
> > http://www.createwith.com


Well, my first question is...why did you use Flash for a plain black and
white design?  The same thing could have easily been done with plain ole
HTML in probably half the time.  You have no fancy animations or
graphics that really require Flash.  There is no reason to use Flash
unless you're showing off animation or are doing some sort of product
demo where movement and sound would enhance the visual appeal or show
someone how something works.

Even if Flash is supposedly on over 90% of all browsers, I still would
not use it to replace content that is more easily done in XHTML and CSS.

Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer
---
Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com
URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Carl Reynolds]

Laurie Keith wrote:
Hi,
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
http://www.createwith.com
I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision makers
with some independent comments from other professionals.
Regards,
Laurie Keith - Senior Developer
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I agree with what has been said before: Why use flash? The site is vary 
Spartan looking. The site doesn't seem to have much to say. Why make it 
zoom? 

While the Flash is loading, you flash a message up on the screen, but it 
went by so fast I didn't have time to read it. There used to be a rule 
in the video industry that if you want a viewer to read something on 
screen, it should be on the screen long enough for you to read it three 
times. I think a lot of the movie and video industry has gotten away 
from this rule because I see a lot of things that I barely have time to 
read once and the trend seems to put writing up for about three seconds 
and then remove it no matter how long the text is.

Anyway, If the message you displayed "People who create" is 
important for me to read, I would suggest you leave it on the screen 
about three times as long as you do.

Under the Work menu if I select one of the companies you have listed 
(which was clear I should do until I read someone else's post about 
looking at company details), there is a  button at the top. The 
button doesn't do anything. Should it?  Oh, wait, I see that the '<' 
and '>' are supposed to be arrows. That wasn't clear.


I hope these comments will help,
Carl.
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Laurie Keith wrote:
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
http://www.createwith.com
Opera 7.54 on modem (44kb)...
- I would have left after 30 seconds (while downloading) if this had 
been for real.
- Looks like a plain HTML page with nothing much going for it.
- Those links disappear outside the left edge of the screen on 640x480, 
and that's about the size of the entire message.

Lynx...
- well, I see the "title", but that's it.
I hope you'll include some link-relations in the page-head, so I can 
find my way around. And maybe some text to give me a clue...?
A touch of "accessibility"?

Source-mode...
- no problem. I could see the comments and read all meta text.
Not a good solution no matter how I look at it. Need some real 
re-thinking to make this one work.

Georg
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Paul Connolley]

On 12 Nov 2004, at 12:33, Laurie Keith wrote:
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an  
honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
15 minutes spent so here goes:
http://www.createwith.com
http://with.shunuk.co.uk
It is just a simple mock-up but I wanted to show you the point which  
Susan, Sam and Veine have made. It truly is that easy to create  
something like this.

Veine made the point that it lacks graphics. Whilst I partially agree,  
I don't think this is your main concern. The content is really your key  
here and you should be presenting it in the best way possible. I'm not  
saying you shouldn't ever use flash, but use it when needs require.  
Flash shouldn't be needed for a website navigation system or even for  
text content.

Branding is always a corporate issue. The company i work for also chose  
a minimalist design so don't be frightened of those plain white  
web-sites they really do work. Our main company web-site and stationary  
received praise for having courage to accept that minimalist designs  
can be visually stunning and aesthetically pleasing.


			with™ : people who create business effective communication  
with you
			    
  
			    
  
		
This (taken from your source code) needs trimming down, and ID="title"  
removed.

To return back to the point about flash. I notice you are loading a lot  
of external flash anyway. This should be easily integrated into an  
ordinary page with alternative content available. The maps are a nice  
touch. Alternative content could be something as simple as a link to  
the multimap page with the same map.

I agree with Susan with regards to the about page being the main entry.  
Whilst it is handy to offer some information _about_ the company, what  
is needed is some real content to interest the visitor and give them a  
general overview of what you really do. Plus, marquespeak doesn't  
always gel with people. "Deliver business effective communication"  
sounds delicious but I had to think thrice to understand it. I'm not  
saying "pretend you're writing for a nursery class" but take  
consideration that not everyone understands it. To go to the extreme,  
dyslexia is a language difficulty which isn't actually a  
"thick-persons-disease" (my esteemed friend is a terrible dyslexic but  
he has a BA (hons), MA and is now heading off to be political) but  
appears in many walks of life. In tech-speak what i just said was,  
"don't shullbit a shullbitter".

I'd comment more but I'm sure there are others who will offer other  
tidbits of info.

--
Paul Connolley
SQL/Systems Programmer
Egocentric - http://egocentric.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Iain Harrison]

Friday, November 12, 2004, 12:33:39 PM, Laurie wrote:

> If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
> evaluation on our new corporate web site.

It appears not to be a web site: just a container for a slow,
bloated, inaccessible flash application, which is dull, hard to use,
has poor accessibility and is invisible to search engines.

You didn't say what the purpose of the site is, but if it is
supposed to make the company look incompetent and drive visitors
away, I'd say it's a great success.

Needless to say, the HTML fails validation, and in the UK it would
be a breach of the Disability Discrimination Act.

There may be some better bits, but I didn't stay to look.  It's not
the worst web site I've seen this year, but it's a contender!


-- 

 Iain

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Felix Miata]

Laurie Keith wrote:
 
> If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
> evaluation on our new corporate web site.
 
> http://www.createwith.com
 
> I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision makers
> with some independent comments from other professionals.

Not much to evaluate. Any page that tells me I need something I can't
have is a page I didn't need anyway. See also:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=UsingPoints
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=UsingFontSize
-- 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Veine K Vikberg]

Well...,
Where to start
Load time, even on DSL it loads really slow, this site is not intended for 
modem users at all (still the largest population of internet users) but on 
the other hand, by looking at your branding work, seems like you don't 
really cater to small clients, so you may not care.

Graphics? - The site looks not complete, I reloaded twice to get a header 
of sorts, and then realized that there will never be one, and it has no 
real ' point of entry ' or home page. The design with the little arrow in 
the top right corner does not really look like something can be used (I 
mistakenly took it for something to close the window with.

The ' portfolio ' of sorts does not have any back buttons after you see the 
work - the whole navigation is cumbersome to use, and from a usability 
stand point, where you want to make it as easy as you can on the customer, 
this is not the answer.

Branding - well, seems like you brand customers really well (love the My 
Equifax one) but you forgot yourself?

Am going to stop here, am sure that this is not what you wanted to hear - 
and it's only my opinion - so take it for what it is - in my opinion this 
is more like a presentation on a screen like a Flash Power Point presentation.

  Regards
 ~Veine
At 12:33 PM 11/12/2004 +, you wrote:
Hi,
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
http://www.createwith.com
I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision makers
with some independent comments from other professionals.
Regards,
Laurie Keith - Senior Developer
Veine K Vikberg
http://www.vikberg.net
Professional Web Guru

RE: [WSG] Site Critique

[Sam Hutchinson]

I concur with Susan.
Why goto the bother of doing it all in flash?
Because of the pure lack of content, you could have knocked that whole site
out in plain old html in less than an hour...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Susan R. Grossman
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 03:46
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique


> If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an
honest
> evaluation on our new corporate web site.


My first attempt was a total bust.  My main browser (FF)  I do't
install anything  - I use out of the box so that I see what users who
don't install see.  So no Flash.  Instead I got what I continue to be
a completly useless msg, especially for a corporate site

"To view this website, You need to have Flash Player 7 installed on your
system.

Please briefly visit the Macromedia download page to quickly install
the required software before entering our site.

Altenatively, we will shortly provide  a text only HTML version for
users who cannot view active content."


So then I switch to IE 6 and waited for it to load.  And thought maybe
it hadn't all loaded becasue it was a black and white page with text
links that started on the about page.

I don't think a website should start on an about page,  and I see
absolutely no reason for a flash site that had no graphics (except for
a map that zooms on a scroll).   Also there isn't enough text to tell
me anything (except on the press page).  And I didn't like the little
arrow that changed the size, since it was just links and short text
why would I need it larger.

Sorry, but I thought this was a perfect example of technology for
technologies sake.



--
Susan R. Grossman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Susan R. Grossman]

> If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
> evaluation on our new corporate web site.


My first attempt was a total bust.  My main browser (FF)  I do't
install anything  - I use out of the box so that I see what users who
don't install see.  So no Flash.  Instead I got what I continue to be
a completly useless msg, especially for a corporate site

"To view this website, You need to have Flash Player 7 installed on your system.

Please briefly visit the Macromedia download page to quickly install
the required software before entering our site.

Altenatively, we will shortly provide  a text only HTML version for
users who cannot view active content."


So then I switch to IE 6 and waited for it to load.  And thought maybe
it hadn't all loaded becasue it was a black and white page with text
links that started on the about page.

I don't think a website should start on an about page,  and I see
absolutely no reason for a flash site that had no graphics (except for
a map that zooms on a scroll).   Also there isn't enough text to tell
me anything (except on the press page).  And I didn't like the little
arrow that changed the size, since it was just links and short text
why would I need it larger.

Sorry, but I thought this was a perfect example of technology for
technologies sake.



-- 
Susan R. Grossman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [WSG] Site critique w/url

[Iain Gardiner]

Hi Tricia,

Which browser do you view it in?  I see it moving to the right in Firefox,
but that's simply because the content does not extend past the bottom of the
browser pane on that page only.  When the right hand scrollbar disappears
all the content moves to take up the slack space.  This doesn't happen in IE
because it always retains the scrollbar whether it's needed or not.  Relax,
your design is not flawed in this respect.  :)

Iain

--
Iain Gardiner
http://www.firelightning.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tricia Fitzgerald
Sent: 16 August 2004 23:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Site critique w/url


Sorry ~ my only excuse: It's Monday!

The url: http://www.abetterpetdogtraining.com


On Aug 16, 2004, at 2:22 PM, Tricia Fitzgerald wrote:

> Hello ~ I am new to css layout design and just recently completed a
> site. I used Menu Machine
> in the interest of saving time.
>
> I have an issue with the "Products" header image moving slightly to
> the right when it's clicked
> on. Is it Menu Machine causing this?
>
> I have checked everything a dozen times and cannot figure it out.
>
> Also, when validated I got 105 errors. The bulk of them had to do with
> MM.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.
>
> Tricia
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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>

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Re: [WSG] Site critique

[Leslie Riggs]

Got the URL of your site? 

If the validator is telling you there's an issue with the code generated 
by Menu Machine, then I'd guess that Menu Machine does not generate 
standards compliant code?

Leslie
Tricia Fitzgerald wrote:
Hello ~ I am new to css layout design and just recently completed a 
site. I used Menu Machine
in the interest of saving time.

I have an issue with the "Products" header image moving slightly to 
the right when it's clicked
on. Is it Menu Machine causing this?

I have checked everything a dozen times and cannot figure it out.
Also, when validated I got 105 errors. The bulk of them had to do with 
MM.

Any suggestions appreciated.
Tricia
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Re: [WSG] Site critique

[Jeff D. Reid]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tricia Fitzgerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: [WSG] Site critique


> Hello ~ I am new to css layout design and just recently completed a 
> site. I used Menu Machine
> in the interest of saving time.
> 
> I have an issue with the "Products" header image moving slightly to the 
> right when it's clicked
> on. Is it Menu Machine causing this?
> 
> I have checked everything a dozen times and cannot figure it out.
> 
> Also, when validated I got 105 errors. The bulk of them had to do with 
> MM.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> 

Just one, in the interest of saving time, get rid of Menu Machine.

Jeff
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Re: [WSG] Site critique

[Alan Milnes]

> Also, when validated I got 105 errors. The bulk of them had to do with
> MM.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.


My first suggestion would be to post a URL :-)

Alan


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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
You bet I hang at the validation sites like the coffee bar. Cleared up 
the font issue, the remaining warnings are on the necessary hacks.

C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 06:40 PM, Jim Barricks wrote:
Hey Wasabi,
Just go to http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ to validate your CSS. 
The site
will give you any errors on your site to correct.

Best,
Jim
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License #0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *

- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> Hi,
>
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a
> boggle
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
>
> C
>
>
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
>
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in
> the
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
>
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License #0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Jim Barricks]

Hey Wasabi,
Just go to http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ to validate your CSS. The site
will give you any errors on your site to correct.
Best,
Jim
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License 
#0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *

- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> Hi,
>
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a
> boggle
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
>
> C
>
>
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
>
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in
> the
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
>
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License 
#0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  * 

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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Christopher Stratford]

Hey Wasabi,
Replying from uni here.

Well I mean that the website is very spaced out.
Large spaces on the sides, large image at the top and the bottom (the flash at the 
top, and the coffee at the bottom)...

then the content, is in a scrollable box in the center...
To me - it seems very cramped.

Re the CSS...
When I validated your CSS there were a few errors, one such error was that there was 
no default font set.

So when you say:

font-family: tahoma, verdana... whatever fonts...

you should include:

font-family: tahoma, verdana, san-serif;
or
font-family: tahoma, verdana, serif;

whichever font type you are using - obvioulsy I just copied that line and changed the 
last font - but you know what I am saying???
It needs a default to fall back on.

I cant remember the other errors - and havn't the time to go back and check.
but I am sure someone on the list will give you a hand!

Cheers!
- Chris Stratford


- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

> Hi,
> 
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a 
> boggle 
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
> 
> C
> 
> 
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
> 
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in 
> the 
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> 
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a boggle 
with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?

C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
I don't understand, please elaborate.
C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 03:14 PM, ailingwebss wrote:
Hey, Wasabi and Chris Stratford
I think make the 600*480 too much longer,
but I like the idea about use the old pictures and the flash.
also the color.
keep on
ailing
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

Hey Wasabi,
Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed 
width
layout that will work in a 600*480...
Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...

Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the
horizontal scroll bar.
The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below 
the
fold there are a lot of images.
the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.

The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.
Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
love the old pictures and the diner look.
hope my response can help you.
:)
great job!
- Chris Stratford
Wasabi wrote:
Hi,
After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
http://ckimedia.com
Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
"Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
—Paolo Soleri
Chris
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[ailingwebss]

Hey, Wasabi and Chris Stratford

I think make the 600*480 too much longer, 
but I like the idea about use the old pictures and the flash.
also the color.

keep on
ailing

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique


> Hey Wasabi,
> 
> Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed width 
> layout that will work in a 600*480...
> Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...
> 
> Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the 
> horizontal scroll bar.
> 
> The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
> 
> Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below the 
> fold there are a lot of images.
> the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.
> 
> The layout does look craped.
> It ends up being very empty at the top...
> and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
> middle...
> then lots of empty room below again.
> 
> Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
> you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
> 
> love the old pictures and the diner look.
> hope my response can help you.
> :)
> great job!
> 
> - Chris Stratford
> 
> Wasabi wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
> >
> > http://ckimedia.com
> >
> > Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
> >
> >
> > "Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
> > —Paolo Soleri
> >
> >
> > Chris
> > **
> > The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> >
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> > Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> >
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
>  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
> 
> 

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Chris Stratford]

Hey Wasabi,
Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed width 
layout that will work in a 600*480...
Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...

Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the 
horizontal scroll bar.

The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below the 
fold there are a lot of images.
the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.

The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.

Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
love the old pictures and the diner look.
hope my response can help you.
:)
great job!
- Chris Stratford
Wasabi wrote:
Hi,
After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
http://ckimedia.com
Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
"Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
—Paolo Soleri
Chris
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for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - developer checklist

[Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen]

The voices are telling me that Russ Weakley - Maxdesign said on 
5/29/2004 4:28 PM:

Rev Bob, I'd be very careful about Bobby. This has been discussed on-list a
few times, but here is a recap:
[snip]
Many thanks.  I should have suspected that.  It's not like nobody's 
ever heard of that subject ;-)  Off to mine the archives.  Thanks 
for the links.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/

Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
"Everybody But Me"
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - developer checklist

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

After asking everyone not to hijack a topic, it seems I have done the same.
Apologies all (especially Mike).

Rev Bob, I'd be very careful about Bobby. This has been discussed on-list a
few times, but here is a recap:

There are other accessibility tools that have better reputations than Bobby
now. Bobby has received growing criticism over the last few years - here is
an example:
http://www.evolt.org/article/Why_Bobby_Approved_is_not_Enough/4090/9278/inde
x.html?format=print

Here are some other online accessibility tools:

WAVE
http://wave.webaim.org/index.jsp

UsableNet:
http://www.usablenet.com/

Ask Alice:
http://askalice.ssbtechnologies.com:8080/askalice/index.html

Colour Contrast Analyser:
http://www.juicystudio.com/services/colourcontrast.asp

'cynthiasays' 
http://www.cynthiasays.com

Accessify tools and wizards
http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/default.asp

Checklist of Checkpoints for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html

Russ

> Yes, I definitely think my brain was stretched thin trying to get
> around that one.  Let's try again.  While I don't personally agree
> that you can ignore Bobby's advice, I can see how some people could
> agree, and I don't want to have that fight here.  Indeed, I respect
> their opinions.  However, a developer who doesn't at least *look* at
> what Bobby says hasn't done the job, imho.

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RE: [WSG] Site Critique

[Mike Pepper]

Sure that wasn't a Bacardi & Coke there Bob ;o)

Mike Pepper

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
Sent: 29 May 2004 14:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique


The voices are telling me that LC 55 said on 5/29/2004 2:29 AM:

>> Russ wrote, "Would be good for the group to add/edit this list
>> so that we could have a solid checklist - "WSG's things to check
>> during development".
>
> Excellent checkpoints Russ and it certainly got me thinking of
> additions but I fear more coffee is needed at this end.

Just had a Coke, so I've got a caffeine buzz and a sugar buzz, so I 
may wade in (or perhaps "step into it").

I've been thinking about this one to figure out how to say it.  I 
think a developer should at least visit Bobby/CLiFsays/whatever. 
This may not be the proper group on which to say that I think our 
developer should also do what's necessary to pass Bobby, etc., 
including the unmeasurable suggestions, but I do think that.  And I 
think it's sensible for someone evaluating a site to run it through 
Bobby (etc.) and see if the evaluation shows any sillies.

Yes, I definitely think my brain was stretched thin trying to get 
around that one.  Let's try again.  While I don't personally agree 
that you can ignore Bobby's advice, I can see how some people could 
agree, and I don't want to have that fight here.  Indeed, I respect 
their opinions.  However, a developer who doesn't at least *look* at 
what Bobby says hasn't done the job, imho.
-- 
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/

Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
"Everybody But Me"
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen]

The voices are telling me that LC 55 said on 5/29/2004 2:29 AM:
Russ wrote, "Would be good for the group to add/edit this list
so that we could have a solid checklist - "WSG's things to check
during development".
Excellent checkpoints Russ and it certainly got me thinking of
additions but I fear more coffee is needed at this end.
Just had a Coke, so I've got a caffeine buzz and a sugar buzz, so I 
may wade in (or perhaps "step into it").

I've been thinking about this one to figure out how to say it.  I 
think a developer should at least visit Bobby/CLiFsays/whatever. 
This may not be the proper group on which to say that I think our 
developer should also do what's necessary to pass Bobby, etc., 
including the unmeasurable suggestions, but I do think that.  And I 
think it's sensible for someone evaluating a site to run it through 
Bobby (etc.) and see if the evaluation shows any sillies.

Yes, I definitely think my brain was stretched thin trying to get 
around that one.  Let's try again.  While I don't personally agree 
that you can ignore Bobby's advice, I can see how some people could 
agree, and I don't want to have that fight here.  Indeed, I respect 
their opinions.  However, a developer who doesn't at least *look* at 
what Bobby says hasn't done the job, imho.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
bob at crispen dot org
Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/

Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people
"Everybody But Me"
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[LC 55]

>Russ wrote, "Would be good for the group to add/edit this list so that we could have a
solid checklist - "WSG's things to check during development".

Excellent checkpoints Russ and it certainly got me thinking of additions but I fear 
more coffee is needed at this end.

PS: I always look forward to your ("some light reading") messages, which in themselves 
have upped my education.

Regards, JG



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Re: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Mike Rainey]

I have updated the stylesheets to reflect the scalability of fonts in browsers. I have 
also added a stylesheet for printing, so it looks as it should in print preview 
(except in Mozilla and Firefox at the navigational menu, but I'll get that later).

> 
> From: Mike Rainey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2004/05/28 Fri PM 08:54:40 EDT
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> 
> Thanks. I needed that.
> 
> The screen shots would be helpful. I have access to IE5/Mac but only during those 
> rare occasions I can use my fiance's computer. I have tested it in all PC browsers 
> and it looks like it should in all.
> 
> The font's don't scale. I still have the stylesheets set up to display the fonts in 
> pixel sizes (hisses from the crowd), but I am converting them to em's.
> 
> As for print preview, I guess I forgot about that.
> 
> Thanks again. Keep the critiques coming.
> 
> > 
> > From: Russ Weakley - Maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2004/05/28 Fri PM 08:27:59 EDT
> > To: Web Standards Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> > 
> > Hi Michael,
> > 
> > A few quick tests I always do on a page are:
> > 1. check for scalability (increase font size a few times to see if it
> > breaks)
> > 2. look at it without CSS
> > 3. look in lynx
> > 4. look in a range of browsers
> > 5. look in print preview
> > 
> > The left nav fails badly in Mac/IE5, can send you screenshots offlist if
> > needed.
> > 
> > The print preview does not look like it has been worked on - the browser
> > message is visible at the top of the page when printed. If anything this is
> > exactly the time you would NOT want the message to appear  :)
> > 
> > The usefulness of browser message has also been discussed a lot of times on
> > list recently.
> > 
> > Hope that didn't sound too brutal  :)
> > Russ
> > 
> > 
> > > I have been working on updating my blog for some time and I can only go over
> > > it with my fine-tooth comb but so much before I can't see the forest for the
> > > trees.
> > > 
> > > I would like the members of this group to go to this "beta" version of my blog
> > > and critique to your heart's content and point out anything you see wrong. I'm
> > > a big boy and I can take criticism.
> > > 
> > > The site is http://testjml.dyndns.org/
> > > 
> > > I am aware that some of the Archives pages will not validate as XHTML 1.0
> > > Strict because I am in the process of making each entry validate.
> > > 
> > > Any help would be much appreciated.
> > > 
> > > Michael Rainey
> > 
> > *
> > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > * 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Michael Rainey
> Blog: http://raineym.dyndns.org/
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 

Michael Rainey
Blog: http://raineym.dyndns.org/

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

That was the abridged version. A more extensive list of check points would
include:

1. Quality of code 
- Valid HTML?
- Valid CSS?
- Semantically correct code?

2. Degree of separation between content and presentation
- Full CSS?
- Decorative images in css?

3. Accessibility for users
- Scalable Content?
- Visible skip menus?
- Accessible forms?
- Accessible tables?
- Sufficient colour brightness/contrasts?
- Colour alone used for critical info?
- Responsiveness for dropdown menus?
- Descriptive links for blind users?
(many others can be added here)

4. Accessibility for devices
- Test across range of modern and older browsers
- Without CSS?
- Without images?
- Without Javascript?
- Text browser such as Lynx?
- Print preview?
- Hand Held devices
- Detailed metadata?

5. Usability (probably the most important and may be outside the scope of
this list)
- Easy to understand navigation?
- Consistent navigation through site?
- Consistent language?
(heaps of others could be added here, such as Neilson's ten basic
guidelines)

Would be good for the group to add/edit this list so that we could have a
solid checklist - "WSG's things to check during development".

Russ


> Five excellent testing essentials.  Thanks Russ.
> 
> Luke Moulton
> 

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Re: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Mike Rainey]

Thanks. I needed that.

The screen shots would be helpful. I have access to IE5/Mac but only during those rare 
occasions I can use my fiance's computer. I have tested it in all PC browsers and it 
looks like it should in all.

The font's don't scale. I still have the stylesheets set up to display the fonts in 
pixel sizes (hisses from the crowd), but I am converting them to em's.

As for print preview, I guess I forgot about that.

Thanks again. Keep the critiques coming.

> 
> From: Russ Weakley - Maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2004/05/28 Fri PM 08:27:59 EDT
> To: Web Standards Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> A few quick tests I always do on a page are:
> 1. check for scalability (increase font size a few times to see if it
> breaks)
> 2. look at it without CSS
> 3. look in lynx
> 4. look in a range of browsers
> 5. look in print preview
> 
> The left nav fails badly in Mac/IE5, can send you screenshots offlist if
> needed.
> 
> The print preview does not look like it has been worked on - the browser
> message is visible at the top of the page when printed. If anything this is
> exactly the time you would NOT want the message to appear  :)
> 
> The usefulness of browser message has also been discussed a lot of times on
> list recently.
> 
> Hope that didn't sound too brutal  :)
> Russ
> 
> 
> > I have been working on updating my blog for some time and I can only go over
> > it with my fine-tooth comb but so much before I can't see the forest for the
> > trees.
> > 
> > I would like the members of this group to go to this "beta" version of my blog
> > and critique to your heart's content and point out anything you see wrong. I'm
> > a big boy and I can take criticism.
> > 
> > The site is http://testjml.dyndns.org/
> > 
> > I am aware that some of the Archives pages will not validate as XHTML 1.0
> > Strict because I am in the process of making each entry validate.
> > 
> > Any help would be much appreciated.
> > 
> > Michael Rainey
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 

Michael Rainey
Blog: http://raineym.dyndns.org/

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RE: [WSG] Site Critique

[Luke Moulton]

Five excellent testing essentials.  Thanks Russ.

Luke Moulton

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
Sent: Saturday, 29 May 2004 10:28 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique


Hi Michael,

A few quick tests I always do on a page are:
1. check for scalability (increase font size a few times to see if it
breaks)
2. look at it without CSS
3. look in lynx
4. look in a range of browsers
5. look in print preview

The left nav fails badly in Mac/IE5, can send you screenshots offlist if
needed.

The print preview does not look like it has been worked on - the browser
message is visible at the top of the page when printed. If anything this
is exactly the time you would NOT want the message to appear  :)

The usefulness of browser message has also been discussed a lot of times
on list recently.

Hope that didn't sound too brutal  :)
Russ


> I have been working on updating my blog for some time and I can only 
> go over it with my fine-tooth comb but so much before I can't see the 
> forest for the trees.
> 
> I would like the members of this group to go to this "beta" version of

> my blog and critique to your heart's content and point out anything 
> you see wrong. I'm a big boy and I can take criticism.
> 
> The site is http://testjml.dyndns.org/
> 
> I am aware that some of the Archives pages will not validate as XHTML 
> 1.0 Strict because I am in the process of making each entry validate.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Michael Rainey

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

Hi Michael,

A few quick tests I always do on a page are:
1. check for scalability (increase font size a few times to see if it
breaks)
2. look at it without CSS
3. look in lynx
4. look in a range of browsers
5. look in print preview

The left nav fails badly in Mac/IE5, can send you screenshots offlist if
needed.

The print preview does not look like it has been worked on - the browser
message is visible at the top of the page when printed. If anything this is
exactly the time you would NOT want the message to appear  :)

The usefulness of browser message has also been discussed a lot of times on
list recently.

Hope that didn't sound too brutal  :)
Russ


> I have been working on updating my blog for some time and I can only go over
> it with my fine-tooth comb but so much before I can't see the forest for the
> trees.
> 
> I would like the members of this group to go to this "beta" version of my blog
> and critique to your heart's content and point out anything you see wrong. I'm
> a big boy and I can take criticism.
> 
> The site is http://testjml.dyndns.org/
> 
> I am aware that some of the Archives pages will not validate as XHTML 1.0
> Strict because I am in the process of making each entry validate.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Michael Rainey

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