Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
On 11 Aug 2008, at 11:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a list could usually be said to be synonymous with a 'single column table' and conversely, a data table is a set of parallel lists - they are both special cases of each other. I think that Michael has hit the nail on the head here -- there is a blurry line between certain types of lists and tables. One could also argue that a definition list is a sort of simple table (2 column? tho DTs can have several definitions). I would say that the nature of a table implies cross-referencing (ie. the rows and columns interrelate to provide the correct data), and I let this be my guide. If the columns and rows *don't* interrelate then it's just a collection of lists. -- Rick Lecoat www.sharkattack.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Here is the current mark-up h3Body Art/h3 table captionBody Art Price List/caption thead tr thProduct/th thPrice/th /tr /thead tbody tr tdSmall (writing only, per letter)/td td£10/td /tr tr tdLarge (writing only, per letter)/td td£20/td /tr tr tdSmall (single color)/td td£40/td /tr tr tdMedium (single color)/td td£80/td /tr tr tdLarge (single color)/td td£110/td /tr tr tdSmall (3 colors)/td td£90/td /tr tr tdMedium (3 colors)/td td£180/td /tr tr tdLarge (3 color)/td td£250/td /tr /tbody /table *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Hi James, My understanding is that if the content is tabular data / data list in nature then tables should be used. If your page had a dynamic element to it - say being able to sort your product by price then the best way to mark it up is by tables (IMO)... with JS. Would be interesting to get other views... Rob 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is the current mark-up h3Body Art/h3 table captionBody Art Price List/caption thead tr thProduct/th thPrice/th /tr /thead tbody tr tdSmall (writing only, per letter)/td td£10/td /tr tr tdLarge (writing only, per letter)/td td£20/td /tr tr tdSmall (single color)/td td£40/td /tr tr tdMedium (single color)/td td£80/td /tr tr tdLarge (single color)/td td£110/td /tr tr tdSmall (3 colors)/td td£90/td /tr tr tdMedium (3 colors)/td td£180/td /tr tr tdLarge (3 color)/td td£250/td /tr /tbody /table *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. you don't understand the word list i think. but that's alright; you can learn. -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to the product, size, color info and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Even if it where product and price, as in my origional example, a table is still more semantic because the data in the rows relate to the columns i.e. product and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to the product, size, color info and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Rob, Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the table that use h2 and h1. Cheers. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Calm down everyone! In this case, though no doubt someone can find a dictionary that disagrees with me, a list could usually be said to be synonymous with a 'single column table' and conversely, a data table is a set of parallel lists - they are both special cases of each other. On that basis, I think we need to look a little deeper to decide what is right and wrong - perhaps someone could point out some reasons why one treatment is more accessible than the other? Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of silky Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:38 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. you don't understand the word list i think. but that's alright; you can learn. -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Not sure web users would care a whole lot if the heading was prices or price list. Thanks for the debate chaps; I have struggled over this issue on and off for some time and this has helped me to define a simple rule which works for me. [The rule]If the list has multiple columns check because more than likely it should really be a table; if the table has only one column, check because it may be just a list. - Original Message - From: Rob Enslin To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Ian and Micheal, you summed up what I was about to write. Some people got really defensive. My argument all along was that a list should not always be marked up as a list as such. Take ebay for example, they even go to the extent of calling their results 'lists'. You can see this on results pages where it says view as list. Nobody says oh look here is my table of results on PS3's they say oh look at that long list of PS3 products, even though behind the scenes its a tables. It would be totally wrong for ebay to mark up their results as lists, but the way they are styled makes them look like lists to humans, though strictly they are not. So a list isn't always a list and my example above was what I was trying to get across. Great debate guys! as always :) James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:46 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the table that use h2 and h1. Cheers. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
One way to look at it is that a simple list is a list (in the html sense), whereas a relational list is tabular, so it goes in a table. So, a simple list of 'things to do' would use an HTML list, whereas a list which required data giving more information about the primary list element (a relational list) would be semantically more sound in a table. Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: James Jeffery To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list Ian and Micheal, you summed up what I was about to write. Some people got really defensive. My argument all along was that a list should not always be marked up as a list as such. Take ebay for example, they even go to the extent of calling their results 'lists'. You can see this on results pages where it says view as list. Nobody says oh look here is my table of results on PS3's they say oh look at that long list of PS3 products, even though behind the scenes its a tables. It would be totally wrong for ebay to mark up their results as lists, but the way they are styled makes them look like lists to humans, though strictly they are not. So a list isn't always a list and my example above was what I was trying to get across. Great debate guys! as always :) James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:46 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the table that use h2 and h1. Cheers. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
I vote table. It's not really a list, regardless of the title you put on it. It's a chart. Jo On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:01 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
