RE: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. That's exactly what the new European cookie law is going to force you to do. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jim Croft Sent: 19 March 2012 03:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG. yes - it is no big deal as an individual act, but in aggregate contributes to the advere side of the S:N ratio. The fact that it is demonstrably totally unnecessary makes it all the more irritating. Yes, I could write a filter to catch these messages, but this is the 21st century, there are email transfer standards, we have 24 hr wireless pizza delivery, and I shouldn't have to. You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. Chances are you would probably not go there more than twice (the second time to confirm, 'are you for real?!'). If people are already at borderline S:N, 'a very small amount of time' is it all it is going to take to push them over the 'unsubscribe' edge and seek their web standards jollies elsewhere. Also, it is the professionalism thing... jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Jon Reece jon.re...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I don't mind deleting the few emails (relatively) that are out-of-office replies. If I did, I would probably just set up a filter since I'm using Gmail (and I'm pretty sure most popular email clients support advanced filters as well). I find that the very small amount of time it takes me to select the email, and then select Delete, is really nothing to complain about. Just my $0.02 - Jon On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au _ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au ___ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://about.me/jrc 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) Please send URLs, not attachments: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
OK, we hear you all loud and clear and totally agree with all that has been said (and asked privately by others before). The fault is, of course, mine... putting off solving the WSG mail list issues... So here is a call out. We are thinking of moving the entire system over to mailman. We want your help! Have you had experience with migrating large lists to mailman? Do you have other options you think may be better? Do you have access to web hosting for a large and high traffic mail list? Then email me offlist. Please hold off further discussions on-list. I will announce the changes as soon as we have plans locked down and a schedule for the changes in place. Thanks all for giving me the kick in the bum to get this happening! Russ On 19/03/2012, at 8:21 PM, Steve Green wrote: You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. That's exactly what the new European cookie law is going to force you to do. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jim Croft Sent: 19 March 2012 03:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG. yes - it is no big deal as an individual act, but in aggregate contributes to the advere side of the S:N ratio. The fact that it is demonstrably totally unnecessary makes it all the more irritating. Yes, I could write a filter to catch these messages, but this is the 21st century, there are email transfer standards, we have 24 hr wireless pizza delivery, and I shouldn't have to. You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. Chances are you would probably not go there more than twice (the second time to confirm, 'are you for real?!'). If people are already at borderline S:N, 'a very small amount of time' is it all it is going to take to push them over the 'unsubscribe' edge and seek their web standards jollies elsewhere. Also, it is the professionalism thing... jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Jon Reece jon.re...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I don't mind deleting the few emails (relatively) that are out-of-office replies. If I did, I would probably just set up a filter since I'm using Gmail (and I'm pretty sure most popular email clients support advanced filters as well). I find that the very small amount of time it takes me to select the email, and then select Delete, is really nothing to complain about. Just my $0.02 - Jon On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au _ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au
RE: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
UNCLASSIFIED From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I am subscribed to about 20 or so mailing lists and this is the *only* one that broadcasts Out Of Office notifications. -- MC UNCLASSIFIED *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
Today it is very hard to find time to fit in extra-curricular activities so am not blaming anyone for a perceived lack of original intent of the list currently. I found the list an enormous benefit to me when I was just starting out in web design. Every day brought posts of useful information and list members were so kind and helpful. What bugs me most now is the amount of out-of-office posts. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au_ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://about.me/jrc 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) Please send URLs, not attachments: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
Personally, I don't mind deleting the few emails (relatively) that are out-of-office replies. If I did, I would probably just set up a filter since I'm using Gmail (and I'm pretty sure most popular email clients support advanced filters as well). I find that the very small amount of time it takes me to select the email, and then select Delete, is really nothing to complain about. Just my $0.02 - Jon On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au_ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://about.me/jrc 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) Please send URLs, not attachments: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
yes - it is no big deal as an individual act, but in aggregate contributes to the advere side of the S:N ratio. The fact that it is demonstrably totally unnecessary makes it all the more irritating. Yes, I could write a filter to catch these messages, but this is the 21st century, there are email transfer standards, we have 24 hr wireless pizza delivery, and I shouldn't have to. You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. Chances are you would probably not go there more than twice (the second time to confirm, 'are you for real?!'). If people are already at borderline S:N, 'a very small amount of time' is it all it is going to take to push them over the 'unsubscribe' edge and seek their web standards jollies elsewhere. Also, it is the professionalism thing... jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Jon Reece jon.re...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I don't mind deleting the few emails (relatively) that are out-of-office replies. If I did, I would probably just set up a filter since I'm using Gmail (and I'm pretty sure most popular email clients support advanced filters as well). I find that the very small amount of time it takes me to select the email, and then select Delete, is really nothing to complain about. Just my $0.02 - Jon On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au_ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://about.me/jrc 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) Please send URLs, not attachments: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~
