Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? To address the last question first, Opera happens to be a good choice as well, though I think Firefox is better. The two main reasons are the extensions and the engine. Most of the reliant extensions have already been mentioned, but since there might be others of interest, as well as new additions, I advise you to browse the list every so often. As useful as the extensions are (use them once and you'll wonder how you ever got by without them), it's the Gecko rendering engine which really makes Firefox shine. From my experience, the Gecko engine is the best, most accurate, most advanced around. Since it's been observed time and time again that the best way to code CSS is to start with the correct implementation first, and then correct for the bugs, by using Firefox first you're most likely to end up with a true rendering according to specs. AFAIK, there are only two known bugs in the engine, one of which (the rounding error) is more accurately termed a glitch than a bug. And the other (opposing floats) is a very rare situation. As relatively bug free Opera is compared to IE, it still has more than Gecko. A parting note about development in IE. While initial development is better not done in IE, there comes a point where it's necessary to work with IE. When that time come, an absolute must it the Accessible Information Solutions - Web Accessibility Toolbar (http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/). It's almost like having the much acclaimed Web Developer's Toolbar for Firefox in IE. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? A good developer should have all browser installed which everone he uses as his default is down to his personal prefrence neither give you an advantage over the other, as we should all be looking at supporting them all! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
we should all be looking at supporting them all! Isn't it amusing that developers using web standards have to support the browsers. In an ideal world it would be the other way around. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Adam Hennessy wrote: Isn't it amusing that developers using web standards have to support the browsers. In an ideal world it would be the other way around It does sound backwards, however I disagree with the ideal world part because I think it make logical sense. It's the standard backwards compatibility issue. (Sorry, but pun intended.) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
It is, in my experience, best to start with the closest implementation to the standards you can find (in this case I choose Firefox/Gecko) and then code for the exceptional cases. If you start from an outlying position (for example IE 5/Win) and then try to work the other way you will find that your efforts will need to be much greater and your CSS will be much muddier. It is better to start with a 'pure' framework and then include the handling for exceptional cases in a modular fashion. I also take issue with the practicality of installing all browsers that could possibly view your site given the variety of operating systems (have you tested using NetPositive on BeOS lately?) and devices. Mark Harwood WebMail wrote: A good developer should have all browser installed which everone he uses as his default is down to his personal prefrence neither give you an advantage over the other, as we should all be looking at supporting them all! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Brian Cummiskey wrote: ALL software will have holes in it. Fact is, mozilla had a patch for it the same day practically In most cases, unless you follow security issues very closely, it's likely you'll hear about the fix before the bug. ... IE's exploits go weeks, and most the time, months. ...if ever. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
They sure do, like I said I do suppost firefox as long as I am on PC and Safari on the Mac. Firefox is excellent, only was curious if the security issue talked about was fixed. Regards, Amit Karmakar www.karmakars.com On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:31:57 -0400, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amit Karmakar wrote: Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ ALL software will have holes in it. Fact is, mozilla had a patch for it the same day practically... IE's exploits go weeks, and most the time, months. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Firefox is excellent, only was curious if the security issue talked about was fixed. I don't imagine it will be long until it is fixed. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253121 That is the beauty of open source. All software can have bugs. It is how fast they are fixed that is of importance. There is a neat test case here as a proof of concept: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=154374action=view * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
1. The web developer toolbar http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/ 2. Tabbed interface for multiple sites in one window 3. Opera has Ads which take up part of its interface -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm putting together a list of web development tools and am wondering about the following: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Opera's support of form styling was (unitl recently) totally lacklustre. I'm not saying which side of the form styling is inherently wrong fence I sit on, but that combined with the ads is enough for me to choose Mozilla (full suite, not Firefox) as my dev browser. _ Protect your inbox from harmful viruses with new ninemsn Premium. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp?banner=emailtagreferrer=hotmail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Hi Helen I use Firefox, in combination with Chris Pederick's Web Developer extension (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/), as my primary development browser. Firefox renders my markup and CSS as I'd expect it to be rendered, gives me good page information and has a built in DOM inspector. Once the Web Developer toolbar is included it becomes very easy to check on page structure, validation and the like. Opera still has some rendering quirks and a somewhat more cluttered feel. I know this isn't much help for your list but there's a certain je ne sais quoi about Firefox - it just feels right! Cheers Peter --- Peter Asquith http://www.wasabicube.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm putting together a list of web development tools and am wondering about the following: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:29:41 +1200, Peter Asquith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Helen I use Firefox, in combination with Chris Pederick's Web Developer extension (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/), as my primary development browser. Firefox renders my markup and CSS as I'd expect it to be rendered, gives me good page information and has a built in DOM inspector. Once the Web Developer toolbar is included it becomes very easy to check on page structure, validation and the like. Opera still has some rendering quirks and a somewhat more cluttered feel. I know this isn't much help for your list but there's a certain je ne sais quoi about Firefox - it just feels right! Cheers Peter --- Peter Asquith http://www.wasabicube.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm putting together a list of web development tools and am wondering about the following: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
That's not the first vulnerability to be found in Firefox and whilst it may be ammunition for IE-zealots it's nothing compared to all of the exploits that IE is vulnerable to... As Firefox gains popularity I don't doubt more holes will appear, but that's the price of fame! Mt. -Original Message- From: Amit Karmakar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox? Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:29:41 +1200, Peter Asquith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Helen I use Firefox, in combination with Chris Pederick's Web Developer extension (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/), as my primary development browser. Firefox renders my markup and CSS as I'd expect it to be rendered, gives me good page information and has a built in DOM inspector. Once the Web Developer toolbar is included it becomes very easy to check on page structure, validation and the like. Opera still has some rendering quirks and a somewhat more cluttered feel. I know this isn't much help for your list but there's a certain je ne sais quoi about Firefox - it just feels right! Cheers Peter --- Peter Asquith http://www.wasabicube.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm putting together a list of web development tools and am wondering about the following: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Chris Blown wrote: On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 10:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? DOM Inspector Venkman Javascript Debugger Edit CSS Browser Session Saving Open Bookmark Groups in Tabs Style Selector Icon And this plugin extension tool bar: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefoxid=60vid=63 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
On Jul 29, 2004, at 11:53 am, Amit Karmakar wrote: Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ For the sake of complete information: it should be noted that both bugs are already fixed. http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=5089 End user upgrades should be available soon for Firefox 0.9 and Mozilla 1.7, 1.4. Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
