Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-11 Thread Mathew Robertson
I've been working with he data generated by surveys, for quite a number of
years and tip that I can give that applies in example is that a boolean
question (aka Yes/No) is represented by 4 states, when asked in a web form,
i.e.

- no response was saved, eg form was served correctly, form was hacked to
submit without a value, etc
- form submitted, but no choice selected
- yes
- no

The solution is to use 3 radio buttons with one of them titled as
'unselected' and with that radio hidden from visibility. As a bonus, it is
also more 'accessible' than the 2-button case.

Mathew Robertson


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-08 Thread Steve Gibbings
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users.  By universally 
implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have 
moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere.  
For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users 
trying to complete a form fast than some other methods.  Personally I try to 
reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers.  If unsure run some user 
audience testing.  If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is 
confusing for them.

From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely 
user experience.

Regards,

Steve


On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote:

 
 
 On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote:
 I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an option 
 selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you 
 remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that 
 doesn't get universally implemented.
 
 Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some 
 other option?
 
 In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate 
 sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than 
 a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied 
 off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two 
 boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it 
 depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario.
 
 cheers,
 Ben
 
 
 -- 
 --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
 --- The future has arrived; it's just not 
 --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
 
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-08 Thread Steve Gibbings
lol, well yes but then that would be attempting to break the input device on  
real radios.  Funnily we must be twins because as a kid I used to try to do 
that too.  I broke so much stuff...



On 8 Jun 2010, at 05:39, Lucien Stals wrote:

 And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could 
 be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* 
 selection. Not saying that as a justification for having no selection in a 
 radio group. Just pointing out that the metaphor wears a bit thin ;)
 
 Lucien.
 
 
 On 08/06/2010, at 11:38 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote:
 
 
 
 On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote:
 I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an option 
 selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you 
 remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that 
 doesn't get universally implemented.
 
 Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some 
 other option?
 
 In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate 
 sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than 
 a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the 
 implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have 
 two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess 
 it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario.
 
 cheers,
 Ben
 
 
 -- 
 --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
 --- The future has arrived; it's just not 
 --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
 
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-08 Thread Steve Gibbings
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users.  By universally 
implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have 
moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere.  
For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users 
trying to complete a form fast than some other methods.  Personally I try to 
reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers.  If unsure run some user 
audience testing.  If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is 
confusing for them.

From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely 
user experience.


On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote:

 
 
 On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote:
 I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an option 
 selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you 
 remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that 
 doesn't get universally implemented.
 
 Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some 
 other option?
 
 In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate 
 sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than 
 a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied 
 off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two 
 boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it 
 depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario.
 
 cheers,
 Ben
 
 
 -- 
 --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
 --- The future has arrived; it's just not 
 --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
 
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-07 Thread Ben Buchanan
On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote:

 I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an
 option selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you
 remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that
 doesn't get universally implemented.


Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some
other option?

In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate
sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than
a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the
implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have
two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess
it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario.

cheers,
Ben


-- 
--- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-07 Thread Lucien Stals
And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could 
be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* 
selection. Not saying that as a justification for having no selection in a 
radio group. Just pointing out that the metaphor wears a bit thin ;)

Lucien.


On 08/06/2010, at 11:38 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote:

 
 
 On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote:
 I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an option 
 selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you 
 remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that 
 doesn't get universally implemented.
 
 Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some 
 other option?
 
 In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate 
 sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than 
 a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied 
 off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two 
 boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it 
 depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario.
 
 cheers,
 Ben
 
 
 -- 
 --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
 --- The future has arrived; it's just not 
 --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
 
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-07 Thread Hassan Schroeder

Lucien Stals wrote:
And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based 
could be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus 
having *no* selection. 


Poor implementations don't define a design pattern.  :-)

--
Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com
webtuitive design ===  (+1) 408-621-3445   === http://webtuitive.com
twitter: @hassan
  dream.  code.


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-06 Thread Ben Buchanan
On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it.
 I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does anyone
 have any good UI/UX suggestions?

 My three ideas were...

 Two radio buttons for yes and no...
 pDo you...?/p
 label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans
 id=ans-yes
 label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no


I go back to the fact radio buttons show mutually-exclusive options, which
makes a very clear yes/no. If your question needs the user to actively
specify a yes or no, it's a good solution. Checkboxes mean one response is
given by omission, which is a less definitive interaction.

Since radio buttons are one element short on their own, you need to wrap
them in a fieldset and legend to essentially act like a label for the set of
radio buttons. I also think the button should be on the left and the text on
the right (in left-to-right languages), since a) that just seems the most
common thing, and b) if you were to add a couple of divs to create rows, the
buttons would line up neatly above each other.

Which gives us...

fieldsetlegendDo you...?/legend
input type=radio name=ans id=ans-yeslabel for=ans-yesYes/label
input type=radio name=ans id=ans-nolabel for=ans-noNo/label
/fieldset


Hope that helps...

cheers,

Ben


-- 
--- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-06 Thread Steve Gibbings
I have a problem with that.   Radio button sets should always have an option 
selected, there is no undefined selection.  This makes sense when you remember 
where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get 
universally implemented.



On 7 Jun 2010, at 02:25, Ben Buchanan wrote:

 
 
 On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it.
 I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does anyone 
 have any good UI/UX suggestions?
 
 My three ideas were...
 
 Two radio buttons for yes and no...
 pDo you...?/p
 label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes
 label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no
 
 I go back to the fact radio buttons show mutually-exclusive options, which 
 makes a very clear yes/no. If your question needs the user to actively 
 specify a yes or no, it's a good solution. Checkboxes mean one response is 
 given by omission, which is a less definitive interaction.
 
 Since radio buttons are one element short on their own, you need to wrap them 
 in a fieldset and legend to essentially act like a label for the set of radio 
 buttons. I also think the button should be on the left and the text on the 
 right (in left-to-right languages), since a) that just seems the most common 
 thing, and b) if you were to add a couple of divs to create rows, the buttons 
 would line up neatly above each other. 
 
 Which gives us...
 
 fieldsetlegendDo you...?/legend
 input type=radio name=ans id=ans-yeslabel for=ans-yesYes/label
 input type=radio name=ans id=ans-nolabel for=ans-noNo/label
 /fieldset
 
 
 Hope that helps...
 
 cheers,
 
 Ben
 
 
 -- 
 --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
 --- The future has arrived; it's just not 
 --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
 
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-04 Thread Krystian Szastok
John, thank you for the book recommendation, I was waiting for someone
to quote one, so I don't have to make a new thread :)

Kind regards,
Krystian


 In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr
 book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long
 Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No
 propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed
 by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a
 Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least
 here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008;
 http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which
 contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his
 approach.



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-- 
Krystian Szastok
http://www.bozboz.co.uk
http://www.searchoptimist.co.uk


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RE: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-04 Thread michael.brockington
There is actually a fourth option, which is a pair of buttons, which is a good 
idea if both choices require an action, such as feeding on to a different form, 
or if this is the last action of the form.

For me, the main thing to think about is 'negative responses' - with a radio 
button you get one answer by default, which may not be the correct response - 
if people don't understand a question they will often ignore it, (a negative 
response) so in your case you should either go with one of the free-choice 
options (ie not a radio button) or else make sure that you word it in such a 
way that people need to change the default if they understand that they do 
_not_ want an interpreter.  If that wasn't clear, think about the difference 
between an opt-out tick-box, and an opt-in tick-box - on paper they are 
interchangeable, but legally speaking they are not.

Regards,
Mike


From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of nedlud
Sent: 04 June 2010 03:30
To: wsg
Subject: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it.
I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does anyone 
have any good UI/UX suggestions?

My three ideas were...

Two radio buttons for yes and no...
pDo you...?/p
label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes
label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no

A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies no...
pDo you...?/p
input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans

Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer...
pDo you...?/p
select name=ans id=ans
   option value=yesYes/option
   option value=noNo/option
/select

Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way?

Lucien.

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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-04 Thread Lea de Groot

On 4/06/10 2:41 PM, nedlud wrote:

The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
This is followed by: If so, what language?



Personally, I would try this structure:

Do you require a translator?
o No
o Yes
   [] Greek | {I require a Greek Translator  written in greek}
   [] Russian | { I require a Russian Translator written in Russian}
   [] etc
   [] Other [__ ]

and so on, obviously using the languages appropriate to your population 
segment.


I wouldn't do anything clever with making the language part appear and 
disappear when they select yes/no, as seeing the name of their language 
in the form can help prompt them to check it.


Hope it helps

Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-03 Thread John Unsworth
Hi Lucien,

The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the
action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this
might provide a clearer notion as to what to do.

By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark
up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what
you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no.

However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more
regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with
webmail clients and the Remember me check box.

So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No
action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an
Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be
rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do
you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie;
Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another
example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter?
radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if
you would not like to receive our email newsletter.

In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr
book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long
Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No
propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed
by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a
Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least
here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008;
http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which
contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his
approach.

But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts -
Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme
Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No.
Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for
Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No.
Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental,
Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No.

So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to
use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be
handled a better way?

Cheers,
John Unsworth



On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it.
 I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does anyone
 have any good UI/UX suggestions?
 My three ideas were...
 Two radio buttons for yes and no...
 pDo you...?/p
 label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes
 label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no
 A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies
 no...
 pDo you...?/p
 input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans
 Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer...
 pDo you...?/p
 select name=ans id=ans
    option value=yesYes/option
    option value=noNo/option
 /select
 Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way?
 Lucien.
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-03 Thread nedlud
Hmm.

I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important.
But I can sure see your point.

The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
This is followed by: If so, what language?

I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has
explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the
web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you
require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language
question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that
the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an
English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form).

I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a
single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states
(checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more
comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose
than absolutely necessary?

Lucien.

On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Lucien,

 The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the
 action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this
 might provide a clearer notion as to what to do.

 By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark
 up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what
 you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no.

 However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more
 regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with
 webmail clients and the Remember me check box.

 So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No
 action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an
 Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be
 rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do
 you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie;
 Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another
 example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter?
 radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if
 you would not like to receive our email newsletter.

 In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr
 book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long
 Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No
 propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed
 by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a
 Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least
 here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008;
 http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which
 contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his
 approach.

 But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts -
 Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme
 Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No.
 Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for
 Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No.
 Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental,
 Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No.

 So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to
 use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be
 handled a better way?

 Cheers,
 John Unsworth



 On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in
 it.
  I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does
 anyone
  have any good UI/UX suggestions?
  My three ideas were...
  Two radio buttons for yes and no...
  pDo you...?/p
  label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans
 id=ans-yes
  label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no
  A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies
  no...
  pDo you...?/p
  input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans
  Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer...
  pDo you...?/p
  select name=ans id=ans
 option value=yesYes/option
 option value=noNo/option
  /select
  Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way?
  Lucien.
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-03 Thread Gregorio Hernández Caso
Hi Lucien,

In my opinion, this is the best structure for yes/no options:

pDo you...?/p
labelinput type=radio name=ans value=yes Yes/label
labelinput type=radio name=ans value=no No/label

Cheers,
Greg



On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 11:41 PM, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hmm.

 I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important.
 But I can sure see your point.

 The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
 This is followed by: If so, what language?

 I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version
 has explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on
 the web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if
 you require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language
 question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that
 the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an
 English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form).

 I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a
 single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states
 (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more
 comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose
 than absolutely necessary?

 Lucien.


 On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Lucien,

 The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the
 action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this
 might provide a clearer notion as to what to do.

 By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark
 up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what
 you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no.

 However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more
 regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with
 webmail clients and the Remember me check box.

 So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No
 action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an
 Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be
 rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do
 you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie;
 Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another
 example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter?
 radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if
 you would not like to receive our email newsletter.

 In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr
 book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long
 Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No
 propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed
 by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a
 Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least
 here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008;
 http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which
 contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his
 approach.

 But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts -
 Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme
 Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No.
 Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for
 Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No.
 Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental,
 Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No.

 So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to
 use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be
 handled a better way?

 Cheers,
 John Unsworth



 On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in
 it.
  I got to wondering what the best semantic  mark up for this is? Does
 anyone
  have any good UI/UX suggestions?
  My three ideas were...
  Two radio buttons for yes and no...
  pDo you...?/p
  label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans
 id=ans-yes
  label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans
 id=ans-no
  A single check box. A tick implies a yes answer while no tick implies
  no...
  pDo you...?/p
  input type=checkbox name=ans id=ans
  Or a selection list with a yes and a no answer...
  pDo you...?/p
  select name=ans id=ans
 option value=yesYes/option
 option value=noNo/option
  /select
  Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way?
  Lucien.
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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-03 Thread John Unsworth
Lucien,

Interestingly the Robert Hoekman Jr example I cited started originally
as a paper form. In his write up when the form was first put up online
before he came along it ran to page after page, resulting in people
never completing it!

In your example the first thing that strikes me, but this could be a
can of worms (based on your observation about asking a non-English
speaker to advise What language? when they might not be able to
understand even that) is either links in the available languages to
the same form in those languages, or at least to a page in the
selected language with information about what to do next - even though
that might mean calling a help line instead, or lastly the form begins
with say language Flag Icons and if someone chooses anything other
than English off to the alternate page or form. That action becomes
your Yes or No scenario.

There was a visitor from the W3C who spoke to the WSG in Melbourne
some time ago now called Richard Ishida who is all about
internationalisation on the web. More links; http://rishida.net/

Cheers,
John Unsworth

On 4 June 2010 14:41, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hmm.
 I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important.
 But I can sure see your point.
 The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
 This is followed by: If so, what language?
 I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has
 explicit check boxes for yes and no. But it occurred to me that on the
 web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. Tick the box if you
 require an interpreter. Then dynamically insert the what language
 question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that
 the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an
 English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form).
 I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a
 single check box can easily represent both the yes and no states
 (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more
 comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose
 than absolutely necessary?
 Lucien.

 On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Lucien,

 The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the
 action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this
 might provide a clearer notion as to what to do.

 By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark
 up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what
 you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no.

 However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more
 regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with
 webmail clients and the Remember me check box.

 So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No
 action or like the Remember me function a call to action with an
 Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be
 rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of Do
 you..? the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie;
 Remember me for 2 weeks - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another
 example, rather than Would you like to receive our email newsletter?
 radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by Uncheck if
 you would not like to receive our email newsletter.

 In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr
 book Designing the Obvious and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long
 Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No
 propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed
 by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a
 Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least
 here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008;
 http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which
 contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his
 approach.

 But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts -
 Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme
 Insurance = Radio Button Yes/No.
 Second iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for
 Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No.
 Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision
 coverage..with Acme Insurance = checkbox's for Medical, Dental,
 Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No.

 So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to
 use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be
 handled a better way?

 Cheers,
 John Unsworth



 On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in
  it.
  I got to wondering what the best