Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-04-27 Thread Ben Buchanan
 I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make
 sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't
 need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8. Client is
 from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has
 to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to
 such 'expectation'.
 Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I coded
 for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version targeting thing
 really got people worry.
 Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and treat
 IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry anything with
 IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all until client was making
 this request.


My take on this is you cannot *really* code for a browser that's not
released yet. Alpha/Beta/pre-release versions simply are not the same as
final versions.

There's a slight difference in this case because you do have a safety net -
if the site works in IE7, but truly goes pear shaped in IE8, you can version
switch it back to
IE7. But, that's a first ever situation and I would not change my
dealings with a client on that basis.


As an ongoing client relations precedent I'd suggest that you do not commit
to making something work in a browser that's not in final release. Reassure
them that you will code to best practice; ensure any conditional comments
are version tagetted appropriately (do not use if IE, always use something
like if IE lte 7 or if IE 6); mention that version switching is a safety
net; do test in beta browsers but don't guarantee the final release.

If their site ultimately needs work due to a new browser release, that's
part of the cost of ownership of a web presence. You can agree to minimise
the risk, but you can't guarantee the site won't need work in IE8's final
version.

Hope that helps :)

-Ben

-- 
--- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-04-27 Thread Anders Nawroth

Hi!

Ben Buchanan skrev:
My take on this is you cannot *really* code for a browser that's not 
released yet. Alpha/Beta/pre-release versions simply are not the same as 
final versions.


My experience from IE7 beta releases in a nutshell:
* bugs changed between betas
* no bugs I encountered (and found workarounds for) in betas existed in 
the final release
* a new bug was introduced in the final version, breaking the navigation 
completely for the sites I was working on ...


The cheapest solution is to work with existing software, so coding for 
IE8 now is a bad idea in my opinion. Any work on finding workarounds for 
IE8 at this stage may be a waste of time.


/anders



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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-04-25 Thread Michael Horowitz
You need to be worried if IE 8 isn't compliant with standards or 
standards changes that don't exist today are implemented in ie 8.


There really is no way to guarantee everything will run in a browser 
that currently doesn't exist. 


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



tee wrote:
I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make 
sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she 
doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 
8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her 
concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't 
know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'.


Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I 
coded for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version 
targeting thing really got people worry.


Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and 
treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry 
anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all 
until client was making this request.


Thanks!

tee


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-26 Thread jody tate
IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- 
compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta  
tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their  
mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks.


Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent  
debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been  
using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard  
that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all should  
be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of the IE  
development team, while not always stellar in the past, genuinely seem  
to be going in the right direction. They're working with the Web  
Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't the disaster  
that IE6 and 7 have been.


--
Jody Tate
Web Developer - UW Network Systems
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/



On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:52 AM, tee wrote:
I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to  
make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out,  
she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur  
in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her  
concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't  
know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'.


Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I  
coded for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version  
targeting thing really got people worry.


Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and  
treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry  
anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all  
until client was making this request.


Thanks!

tee


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-26 Thread tee

Hi Jody and others who responded  to my post.
I am very relief to know that I don't need to worry.

tee


On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:20 AM, jody tate wrote:
IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- 
compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta  
tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their  
mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks.


Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent  
debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been  
using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard  
that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all  
should be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of  
the IE development team, while not always stellar in the past,  
genuinely seem to be going in the right direction. They're working  
with the Web Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't  
the disaster that IE6 and 7 have been.


--
Jody Tate
Web Developer - UW Network Systems
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/






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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-21 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

tee wrote:
I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to 
make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she

 doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE
 8.Client is from a web media company, though I understand her 
concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't 
know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'.


You've got no real IE8 to make anything work for yet, so, no.

IE8b1 is so weak and broken that it doesn't make sense to do anything
but reporting its weaknesses back to the IE-team. Better wait for better
betas or the final version, or else you risk ending up having to redo
whatever you do for it now.

IE8 final will probably be relatively standard compliant - based on what
the IE-team has written about it and what one can imagine from studying
IE8b1, so there's a chance we won't have to do much for it if a design
is made to work well in better browsers.

Advice: just make sure IE8 can't see any fixes for IE6 and IE7, or for
IE/Mac, and leave it at that for now.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-21 Thread Andrew Maben

On Mar 21, 2008, at 6:52 AM, tee wrote:


make sure my code will work for IE8...


That's about as reasonable a request as booking a Caribbean cruise in  
hurricane season and asking the cruise company to guarantee fair  
weather...


Andrew







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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-21 Thread Thomas Thomassen
I've used conditional comments to serve tweak CSS files to older IE 
versions. When I tested IE8 on my sites they all looked fine and I didn't 
have to add a separate CSS file for it. That's quite a good sign for a beta 
version. (I'm using strict mode here so it triggered IE8's superstandard 
mode.)


However, there is no way to make sure it'll work with IE8 now, as it's still 
in beta. You'd have to wait until the RC builds before you can be even close 
to that.


Provided your CC doesn't feed IE8 with fixes intended for IE5, 6 or 7 I 
think you should be fine. If your client demands you're 100% sure it'll work 
fine then your client is being very unresonable as the product is still 
under heavy development.



- Original Message - 
From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?


I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make 
sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she  doesn't 
need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE  8. Client is 
from a web media company, though I understand her  concerns and that she 
has to answer to her client, but I just don't  know how or if I should 
commit to such 'expectation'.


Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I  coded 
for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version  targeting thing 
really got people worry.


Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and  treat 
IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry  anything with 
IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all  until client was 
making this request.


Thanks!

tee


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-21 Thread Alastair Campbell
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 10:52 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I
  coded for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version
  targeting thing really got people worry.

Um, could you just not add the meta tag saying 'treat as IE7'?

-Alastair


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