Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-30 Thread willdonovan
I dont seem to get any of the flicking effects that everyone is talking about. I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.8 William Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Tee G. Peng wrote: teesworks.com/ Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise' everytime the

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-30 Thread willdonovan
on the topic of skip links and semantic styling, and to add to the mix of usability, accessibility and getting into the habit of best practice, Accessibility is not just for the impaired, it is also for people who access through different devices where CSS has not been styled to suite what

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-30 Thread Tee G. Peng
On Oct 30, 2007, at 5:56 AM, willdonovan wrote: I dont seem to get any of the flicking effects that everyone is talking about. I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.8 Hi William, thanks for checking. It was eliminated :) This site has something similar to what I did - I think I must have gotten the

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Tee G. Peng
I agree with you: the 'hover' technique is way more annoying, and it will annoy way more people. Thanks all for your response. I now can clearly see I got myself carried away by my 'try-to-do-thing-right' little obsession :) Ok, three of you said skip to content is of little use in

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Anders Nawroth
Hi! Tee G. Peng skrev: Thanks to your influences, it has become my second nature to have 'skip to content' I use to do it the other way around, having the content first in source and using a link to get to the navigation. And then I simply put a link to the menu, not anything about

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Stuart Foulstone
But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. On Sun, October 28, 2007 6:46 am, Tee G. Peng wrote: John said don't use display:block. Actually the very reason I used it is because I want a user able to click on any

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Tee G. Peng
On Oct 28, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. Ah yah right A good point you have made. I am a 'mouse' user, and I do find skip to (content/navigation)

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. In general parlance, click has become the general term for activate. Keyboard users won't walk away offended by the use of that term (just the same

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: A compromise solution I have used: when a client doesn't want them, hide them (position them of screen, not display:none), but make them visible when those links are focussed (by pressing the tab key). Yup, I've used that approach on www.salford.ac.uk and it works

RE: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Steve Green
Most disabled users, particularly sight impaired, will use your header markup to navigate the page rather than skip links Really? How will they do that? And what makes you believe that this is the case? ...an accessible browser like Firefox which allows them to display a header list... No it

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Stuart Foulstone
On Sun, October 28, 2007 6:38 pm, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. In general parlance, click has become the general term for activate. Keyboard users

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Tee G. Peng
Georg, thank you so much! IE6 displayed correctly except the header problem I wrote. I did a lot of tweaking in the main stylesheet after my post , and didn't get to check on IE6. You saw the 'wrong version' :), but I notice the header's reloads disappered now the right column sits below

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-28 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Stuart Foulstone wrote: That may well be true, but irrelevant to this discussion. Tee was enlarging the clickable area of a skip to content link with the intention of making it easier to use. oops, right you are. must stop reading emails out of context and jumping at things. apologies, P

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-27 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh
On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Tee G. Peng wrote: ... so I came out with this technique: teesworks.com/ (move your mouse to the top to see the result). Haven't show it to client yet. Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise'

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-27 Thread John Faulds
Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise' everytime the hover pops up. There is no way to miss it everytime I move the cursor to the top. Leaving aside considerations as to whether you should actually be bothering after the client

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-27 Thread Tim Offenstein
At 7:44 PM -0700 10/27/07, Tee G. Peng wrote: I am having an issue and I can't seem to see the whole picture objectively. Thanks to your influences, it has become my second nature to have 'skip to content' in every site I do (sites I have control over the design and layout); when I do markup

Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability

2007-10-27 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Tee G. Peng wrote: teesworks.com/ Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise' everytime the hover pops up. If I, the site builder, find it annoying, what will the users find ? As a user I find that kind of visual flicker highly