Re: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Another problem is that there are organisations which still have large investments in a legacy O/S (MS included) on which IE7/8 cannot run. So it's not just a time issue for downloading the browser, but upgrading to a new O/S. On Mon, August 4, 2008 8:03 am, James Ellis wrote: Hi Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. especially if your systems have a vested interest in some piece of obsolete technology.. but there are two things that strike me as odd here - - IE7 has been around for about 2 years now. It takes about 10 minutes to install IE7 on the desktop (I did one yesterday). 2 employees shouldn't be that difficult ? - the last time I worked in a big corporate environment, upgrades happened with a zap disk - either by choice or because the OS became unusable. The zap would boot up the PC and download an image to the machine, installing the image. A fresh new windows in about 30 minutes. So, time isn't obviously an issue - I think it's more the tying of an application to one browser -- if it's for internal use that's a special case that probably doesn't apply to general public web use. Get enough people hammering on the door and somethings gotta give, I say ;) Cheers James On Monday 04 August 2008 15:54:41 Phillips, Wendy wrote: I would agree. When you have over 20,000 employees and multiple legacy systems, upgrading an OS is a really big deal and you will always be behind the pack. Staff don't have the choice or ability to upgrade. WP -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew Sent: Monday, 4 August 2008 2:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue? as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is a gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at 37signals, I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've done their maths and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something. [snip...] In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or just nicely push people into an upgrade path? OT and not much to do with IE6 .png solutions but instead, the ongoing support of IE6 aspect of this thread. I was advised by a lesser Microsoft management bot that many corporate organisations have a 'latest minus one' policy, which means only running up to the previous version of any current browser. This will hopefully mean that when IE8 is fully released many corporate techs will then upgrade to IE7, ideally resulting in a bulk upgrade of the costly IE6. I hope this has some truth. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. At the risk of starting a war, it doesn't sound like you do understand. Before even starting to plan a migration, any decent corporation, of whatever size, must first demonstrate a business advantage to the task. The bigger the organisation is, the more likely they will have a desktop image (XP Pro) that can be applied to any machine they buy in, regardless of what is on it, so neither hardware obsolescence nor the withdrawal of software support holds a big fear for most. The true question is not 'why not upgrade to IE7?' but actually 'why change?'. I can give numerous reasons to upgrade to FF, but no real reasons to upgrade to IE7. As an aside, I am not at all worried by this - it was the longevity of IE4 that did most to make people aware of the alternatives; hopefully IE6 will have the same effect: a little more short-term pain for some long-term gain as they switch to Safari. Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Hi Mike No worries, not interested in war, but I do understand. I guess the one big answer about why change is that, over time, sites will just stop working to their full efficiency. There is also the big one called security (or lack of). I hope, but I don't think, that this fabled desktop image would include FF3, Safari 3 or Opera 9.5 as the default browser :D even IE7 gives me the odd grey hair still. I can only think the organisations that can't upgrade are those completely welded to IE6 because their interfaces only work in that browser OR those that are still using Windows 95/98/2000. If their IT setup is structured that way wellthey've got their own hole to dig out of. I guess what I'm getting at is that for new clients or redevelopments, we can do a lot to educate clients and customers and following on from that improve our lot as developers -- maybe even hasten IE6's demise. Thanks! James On Monday 04 August 2008 20:23:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. At the risk of starting a war, it doesn't sound like you do understand. Before even starting to plan a migration, any decent corporation, of whatever size, must first demonstrate a business advantage to the task. The bigger the organisation is, the more likely they will have a desktop image (XP Pro) that can be applied to any machine they buy in, regardless of what is on it, so neither hardware obsolescence nor the withdrawal of software support holds a big fear for most. The true question is not 'why not upgrade to IE7?' but actually 'why change?'. I can give numerous reasons to upgrade to FF, but no real reasons to upgrade to IE7. As an aside, I am not at all worried by this - it was the longevity of IE4 that did most to make people aware of the alternatives; hopefully IE6 will have the same effect: a little more short-term pain for some long-term gain as they switch to Safari. Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Ladies and Gentlemen, The opposite is true as well. I don't do work for large entities - only very small local businesses so I can share their own situation. Theres no question in my mind that these entities make up a huge share of computer usage. This typical office I work has computers that fall into these groups: The new computers (usually just a couple reserved for the people on them constantly like secretaries etc) - always Dells with either XP sp2 or Vista. Both have IE7 installed. This covers occasional laptops people bring from home etc too. The normal computers (all Dell Dimensions with celerons and around 3-4 years old) These computers represent the business's major technology investment and all have IE6 and are slow as hell. The old computers (they all seem to still have ONE floating around) that has wither win2000, ME, or 98 (its true!) that are typically hidden in the back of the office. Point being, large organizations making major migrations to ease the burden of web development isn't going to happen at a rate that would please us. Most of these organizations will only migrate if something disastrous happens. I imagine: As CEOs iron out what to do with profits for the year do you really think any one of them are saying I was gonna pocket this money or spend it on my mistress, but instead lets get the work force some new computers, I noticed that images using alpha channels are not displaying properly for the slaves. I say probably not My 2 cents. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Ellis wrote: Hi Mike No worries, not interested in war, but I do understand. I guess the one big answer about why change is that, over time, sites will just stop working to their full efficiency. There is also the big one called security (or lack of). I hope, but I don't think, that this fabled desktop image would include FF3, Safari 3 or Opera 9.5 as the default browser :D even IE7 gives me the odd grey hair still. I can only think the organisations that can't upgrade are those completely welded to IE6 because their interfaces only work in that browser OR those that are still using Windows 95/98/2000. If their IT setup is structured that way wellthey've got their own hole to dig out of. I guess what I'm getting at is that for new clients or redevelopments, we can do a lot to educate clients and customers and following on from that improve our lot as developers -- maybe even hasten IE6's demise. Thanks! James On Monday 04 August 2008 20:23:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. At the risk of starting a war, it doesn't sound like you do understand. Before even starting to plan a migration, any decent corporation, of whatever size, must first demonstrate a business advantage to the task. The bigger the organisation is, the more likely they will have a desktop image (XP Pro) that can be applied to any machine they buy in, regardless of what is on it, so neither hardware obsolescence nor the withdrawal of software support holds a big fear for most. The true question is not 'why not upgrade to IE7?' but actually 'why change?'. I can give numerous reasons to upgrade to FF, but no real reasons to upgrade to IE7. As an aside, I am not at all worried by this - it was the longevity of IE4 that did most to make people aware of the alternatives; hopefully IE6 will have the same effect: a little more short-term pain for some long-term gain as they switch to Safari. Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
