Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-31 Thread coder


- Original Message - 
From: Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external
websites



Again, let me turn this discussion around once more. Explain to us WHY you
feel that it's important that your site open links in new tabs, [snip]



Or, then again...can we just let this discussion die?  P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__


I believe that as the internet increasingly spreads in usage, the percentage
of what might be called 'computer literate' users goes down and down. It's
an inevitable fact of life. So the more varied the experience of the
audience for a web site, the more the users won't know about how to navigate
to their own best advantage.

Given the above, whatever I do with links means that the choice is actually 
made by

me, not the user, since the user doesn't have a choice if he thinks there is
only one option. Whichever route I adopt, including doing nothing, it could 
be said that I am

deciding for my user.  So, short of designing an elaborate system  . . .

As to why/when : sometimes it is preferable if the link destination appears
'separately' and a classical case (already mentioned by someone) is in the
use of pdf's. One site I am concerned with uses several forms and much as
pdf can be a horrible medium it is the best one in the case of forms which
have to maintain a rigid layout, be printed out and posted back (using 
stamps!)


However, if I make the choice of opening a pdf in a new window/tab, I
always inform the user that this will happen (as I said earlier in this 
discussion):


CSS:
a[rel=external] {
 padding-right: 13px;
 background: url(outofit.gif) no-repeat right top;
}

With this code:

a href=../sjp.html rel=external onclick=window.open(this.href); return
false; title=opens in a new windowLINK/a

I'm not arrogant enough to declare for sure that this is the best practice, 
which is why I value the various responses.


But you're probably right Patrick, we have now said enough . . .   !!! :-)


Bob 




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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread coder
I just wonder what the view of some 'anti-new windows' folk is towards using 
tabs? I would have thought that tabs are the new 'new windows'??


And doesn't the popularity of tabs imply that users do like to have more 
than one page 'on the go' instead of doing a lot of back and forwarding?


I am genuinely interested in your thinking on this.

Bob



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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread Reactivo Química Visual
With the popularization of tab based navigation, opening new windows is
much less of a hassle in desktop enviroments. It's easier keep track of
your way. In mobile systems such as tablets or mobile browsers, it still is
somewhat annoying.


2011/12/30 coder co...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk

 I just wonder what the view of some 'anti-new windows' folk is towards
 using tabs? I would have thought that tabs are the new 'new windows'??

 And doesn't the popularity of tabs imply that users do like to have more
 than one page 'on the go' instead of doing a lot of back and forwarding?

 I am genuinely interested in your thinking on this.

 Bob



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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread Rob Crowther

On 30/12/2011 12:32, coder wrote:

I just wonder what the view of some 'anti-new windows' folk is towards
using tabs? I would have thought that tabs are the new 'new windows'??

They're still *my* tabs.  I'll open a new one when I want to, not when 
you want to.


Rob


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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread coder


- Original Message - 
From: Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external 
websites




On 30/12/2011 12:32, coder wrote:

I just wonder what the view of some 'anti-new windows' folk is towards
using tabs? I would have thought that tabs are the new 'new windows'??

They're still *my* tabs.  I'll open a new one when I want to, not when you 
want to.


Rob



You just aren't getting this, are you Rob. We're talking about what you do 
if you don't know there are options.

Bob



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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

On 30/12/2011 17:32, coder wrote:

You just aren't getting this, are you Rob. We're talking about what you
do if you don't know there are options.


Again, let me turn this discussion around once more. Explain to us WHY 
you feel that it's important that your site open links in new tabs, 
rather than putting the onus on those who advocate leaving it the hell 
alone and just letting a link be a link (as that's what users will be 
used to - if they don't know they can right/middle/shift-click to open a 
new window, they'll experience the vast majority of the web in a single 
window...and that's how they know it/like it) to explain why you 
SHOULDN'T pop up a new tab/window.


Or, then again...can we just let this discussion die? We've been 
circling around the same pros and cons...and as it's a polarising issue 
and nobody from one camp is likely to convince somebody firmly in the 
other camp, it's fairly pointless beyond this.


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread Tom Livingston
 

On Dec 30, 2011, at 3:39 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote:

 On 30/12/2011 17:32, coder wrote:
 You just aren't getting this, are you Rob. We're talking about what you
 do if you don't know there are options.
 
 Again, let me turn this discussion around once more. Explain to us WHY you 
 feel that it's important that your site open links in new tabs, rather than 
 putting the onus on those who advocate leaving it the hell alone and just 
 letting a link be a link (as that's what users will be used to - if they 
 don't know they can right/middle/shift-click to open a new window, they'll 
 experience the vast majority of the web in a single window...and that's how 
 they know it/like it) to explain why you SHOULDN'T pop up a new tab/window.
 
 Or, then again...can we just let this discussion die? We've been circling 
 around the same pros and cons...and as it's a polarising issue and nobody 
 from one camp is likely to convince somebody firmly in the other camp, it's 
 fairly pointless beyond this.
 
 P
 -- 
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __

Agreed. On CSS-D, this is what is called 'holy war territory'. List moms 
usually drop the hammer.

Sent from iOS 5

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Re: tabs - was[WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-30 Thread Rob Crowther

On 30/12/11 17:32, coder wrote:


You just aren't getting this, are you Rob.


I beg to differ.


We're talking about what you
do if you don't know there are options.

I provided you links to advice based on research with real users, they 
advocated against opening new windows because it confuses users.  What 
is it you're not getting?


Rob


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