Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Claude Frantz via wsjt-devel
Hi all, These references are interesting, but we have to remember that we are speaking about HF communication on short-wave bands, in half duplex mode. None of the actors (the stations on the band) has a full knowledge of the whole situation of the communication channel in use. Each station h

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Phil Karn via wsjt-devel
On 8/28/21 6:30 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: > 50Hz channels won't work due to skirts on the 50hz spread, rig > frequency inaccuracies and sound card non-linearity effects (e.g. > 2000Hz is not the same real freq offset as 200Hz).  60 Hz would be a > better channel width or 55Hz might w

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Phil Karn via wsjt-devel
On 8/28/21 5:50 AM, jan0--- via wsjt-devel wrote: > If a channelized scheme is introduced to avoid recurrent channel collisions, > care should be taken not to reduce the network throughput. As anyone who > has visited 14.074 lately can attest, for much of the day there is more > channel demand t

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Phil Karn via wsjt-devel
On 8/28/21 3:56 AM, William Smith via wsjt-devel wrote: > Interesting idea, a couple of thoughts come to mind (not that you haven't > already considered them): > > When you are only listening, you have a good idea of who else is transmitting > when/where, but as soon as you start transmitting,

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread H.Shrikumar KA6Q via wsjt-devel
> If you include a 'try' number, how would everyone listening know what it > is to predict the transmit frequency? : > > Before grabbing a Tx offset, you know from the past cycles if it was free. > Not if they hop on every transmission, as I propose. We were talking about slightly different bits

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Phil Karn via wsjt-devel
On 8/27/21 22:23, Adrian via wsjt-devel wrote: Probably in future more 3KHz slots will be allocated, with the user relying on spot reports to hone into signals desired. It is the law of the jungle now, with experienced operators looking for clear space to hold TX. The whole idea here is to m

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread Black Michael via wsjt-devel
50Hz channels won't work due to skirts on the 50hz spread, rig frequency inaccuracies and sound card non-linearity effects (e.g. 2000Hz is not the same real freq offset as 200Hz).  60 Hz would be a better channel width or 55Hz might work. Then you have operators whose bandwidth is limited but th

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread jan0--- via wsjt-devel
If a channelized scheme is introduced to avoid recurrent channel collisions, care should be taken not to reduce the network throughput. As anyone who has visited 14.074 lately can attest, for much of the day there is more channel demand than channel availability -- and other bands are frequently s

Re: [wsjt-devel] Idea for "frequency hopping" FT8 to reduce collisions

2021-08-28 Thread William Smith via wsjt-devel
Interesting idea, a couple of thoughts come to mind (not that you haven't already considered them): When you are only listening, you have a good idea of who else is transmitting when/where, but as soon as you start transmitting, you lose visibilty into your timeslot. I use a combination of vis