Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel]

Here is another one , but this time I only waited for two frames:

141930 Tx 1000 ~ CQ OE4KSF JN87
142000 Tx 1000 ~ CQ OE4KSF JN87
141945 -14 0.1 1000 ~ OE4KSF KM2G EL87
142000 Tx 1000 ~ KM2G OE4KSF -14
142030 Tx 1000 ~ KM2G OE4KSF -14
142045 -14 0.1 1001 ~ OE4KSF KM2G R-16
142100 Tx 1000 ~ KM2G OE4KSF RR73   

You see - it has not stated on my new CQ - probably because the SW found his 
reply - and the continued the sequence - and that’s all ok 

For now when I see my reply sequence for two replies - I now just press the CQ 
(Tx 6) - and dont bather to look for more of them before hitting the CQ - Then 
they normally shows up straight away ;-)
Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF




> On 15 Aug 2019, at 16:11, Steinar Fremme  wrote:
> 
> 
> Today it happened 4-5 times , but after I have sendt the reply 3-4-5 times 
> without a reply - I just hit the Tx6 for new CQ and his reply showing 
> straight away
> Like the sone 
> 
> 140115 -24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC FN31
> 140130 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
> 140200 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
> 140230 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
> 140245 -24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC R-14
> 140300 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF RR73
> 
> 
> 
> After my 3’d reply I just hitting the Tx 6 button for a new CQ, and his reply 
> pop straight inn.
> 
> I have tested it as after 5 or 6 replies from me, and the same happening
> 
> Its just as if I enter the Tx 6 button or something else - the SW do decode 
> the buffer a last time , and then it finds the reply ??? - just guessing :-)
> 
> Regards
> Steinar Fremme
> 
> ___
> E-mail: stei...@fremme.at 
> Phone: +436649263301
> Skype: stfremme
> Web:https://1250rt.com
> Ham:   OE4KSF
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 14 Aug 2019, at 22:33, David Gilbert > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi, Steinar.
>> 
>> Yes, I suspect the AGC due to other very strong stations in the passband 
>> could be limiting your ability to decode.  I don't know if you use some sort 
>> of DATA mode on your IC-7851 or not ... I think that usually minimizes AGC 
>> action.  If you are using SSB mode, AGC could certainly kick in early unless 
>> you change the settings to make it a flatter response.
>> 
>> Although it is a nuisance, one possibility might be to manually tune your 
>> receiver to the station you are trying to decode and then narrow the receive 
>> passband.  I know other hams sometimes do that and I can do it on my K3, but 
>> as I say it's a bit clumsy for a normal contact.  To work something more 
>> rare where the other station is staying on the same frequency for a while, 
>> though, it might be worth the trouble. 
>> 
>> Well, your other issue does indeed sound pretty odd.  I'm afraid I don't 
>> have much idea what might be doing that.  Maybe one of the developers has 
>> seen that condition.
>> 
>> Take care es 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
> 

___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

It appears you may be dropping audio.  Do you have other decodes at 140145, 
140215 ?
#1 File/Delete all *wav.#2 Ensure you have an exclusion for 
%LOCALAPPDATA%\WSJT-X in all your antivirus/malware software.#3 Save/All
Then watch the save directory and see if the WAV files aren't being saved.  
We've been seeing this a fair bit recently and the antivirus seems to be one of 
the culprits.
Also, what does your CPU usage look like.  Another user was seeing squished 
lines on the waterfall and found Windows Explorerer was chewing up CPU time.
de Mike W9MDB


 

On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 09:20:15 AM CDT, Steinar Fremme via 
wsjt-devel  wrote:  
 
 
Today it happened 4-5 times , but after I have sendt the reply 3-4-5 times 
without a reply - I just hit the Tx6 for new CQ and his reply showing straight 
awayLike the sone 
140115 -24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC FN31140130 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24 
140200 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24 140230 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24 140245 
-24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC R-14140300 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF RR73
    
After my 3’d reply I just hitting the Tx 6 button for a new CQ, and his reply 
pop straight inn.
I have tested it as after 5 or 6 replies from me, and the same happening
Its just as if I enter the Tx 6 button or something else - the SW do decode the 
buffer a last time , and then it finds the reply ??? - just guessing :-)
Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:    https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF




On 14 Aug 2019, at 22:33, David Gilbert  wrote:
 
 
 Hi, Steinar.
 
 Yes, I suspect the AGC due to other very strong stations in the passband could 
be limiting your ability to decode.  I don't know if you use some sort of DATA 
mode on your IC-7851 or not ... I think that usually minimizes AGC action.  If 
you are using SSB mode, AGC could certainly kick in early unless you change the 
settings to make it a flatter response.
 
 Although it is a nuisance, one possibility might be to manually tune your 
receiver to the station you are trying to decode and then narrow the receive 
passband.  I know other hams sometimes do that and I can do it on my K3, but as 
I say it's a bit clumsy for a normal contact.  To work something more rare 
where the other station is staying on the same frequency for a while, though, 
it might be worth the trouble. 
 
 Well, your other issue does indeed sound pretty odd.  I'm afraid I don't have 
much idea what might be doing that.  Maybe one of the developers has seen that 
condition.
 
 Take care es 73,
 Dave   AB7E
 

___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
  ___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel]

Today it happened 4-5 times , but after I have sendt the reply 3-4-5 times 
without a reply - I just hit the Tx6 for new CQ and his reply showing straight 
away
Like the sone 

140115 -24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC FN31
140130 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
140200 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
140230 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF -24
140245 -24 0.2 1000 ~ OE4KSF WA1WXC R-14
140300 Tx 1000 ~ WA1WXC OE4KSF RR73



After my 3’d reply I just hitting the Tx 6 button for a new CQ, and his reply 
pop straight inn.

I have tested it as after 5 or 6 replies from me, and the same happening

Its just as if I enter the Tx 6 button or something else - the SW do decode the 
buffer a last time , and then it finds the reply ??? - just guessing :-)

Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF




> On 14 Aug 2019, at 22:33, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, Steinar.
> 
> Yes, I suspect the AGC due to other very strong stations in the passband 
> could be limiting your ability to decode.  I don't know if you use some sort 
> of DATA mode on your IC-7851 or not ... I think that usually minimizes AGC 
> action.  If you are using SSB mode, AGC could certainly kick in early unless 
> you change the settings to make it a flatter response.
> 
> Although it is a nuisance, one possibility might be to manually tune your 
> receiver to the station you are trying to decode and then narrow the receive 
> passband.  I know other hams sometimes do that and I can do it on my K3, but 
> as I say it's a bit clumsy for a normal contact.  To work something more rare 
> where the other station is staying on the same frequency for a while, though, 
> it might be worth the trouble. 
> 
> Well, your other issue does indeed sound pretty odd.  I'm afraid I don't have 
> much idea what might be doing that.  Maybe one of the developers has seen 
> that condition.
> 
> Take care es 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 

___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[David Gilbert]

Hi, Steinar.

Yes, I suspect the AGC due to other very strong stations in the passband 
could be limiting your ability to decode.  I don't know if you use some 
sort of DATA mode on your IC-7851 or not ... I think that usually 
minimizes AGC action.  If you are using SSB mode, AGC could certainly 
kick in early unless you change the settings to make it a flatter response.


Although it is a nuisance, one possibility might be to manually tune 
your receiver to the station you are trying to decode and then narrow 
the receive passband.  I know other hams sometimes do that and I can do 
it on my K3, but as I say it's a bit clumsy for a normal contact.  To 
work something more rare where the other station is staying on the same 
frequency for a while, though, it might be worth the trouble.


Well, your other issue does indeed sound pretty odd.  I'm afraid I don't 
have much idea what might be doing that.  Maybe one of the developers 
has seen that condition.


Take care es 73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/14/2019 12:07 PM, Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel wrote:

Thank you Dave !

Well, . I live remote from any local noice - If I tune right outside 
the FT8 frequency I have nothing at all on my S meter .
I can have a SSB QSO with stations not even lifting my S meter at all. 
 The IC-7851 have a grate receiver


But what it might be - is that - like just now on 20M - I have some 
Spanish stations peeking my S meter to 9+30dB

And the station list is giving them +20 on the dB indication
Right now - more than 50% of my receiving stations have more than 
+10dB to +16dB on that scale
And sure the AGC is limiting the ability to receive weak stations on 
the same frequency ?


To the other observation - For me it looks like the SW is decoding the 
same frame over and over gain ?


As long as the receiving station is calling me - and I answer - it all 
will continue as long as the other station is calling me - and the 
signal level will be the same all the time - it never changes ?
As soon as I change my receiving OR transmitting tone frequency by 1 
Hz up then down - or hitting the CQ frame selector - then at the same 
time  the same station is replying with its receiving level - and then 
all is ok from there
It's like its already decoded, but not shown - as it pops up straight 
away - not delayed until decoding next timeframe and so on ?


Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at 
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:    https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF




On 14 Aug 2019, at 19:46, David Gilbert > wrote:



Greetings Steinar.

It seems to me that both of your issues could be caused by a high 
local noise level at your end.  Let's look at the second issue first.


WSJT-X doesn't report the absolute signal strength ... it reports the 
signal strength relative to a (if I remember correctly) 2.5 KHz 
bandwidth at the receiving location. As an example, if your local 
noise level is 10 dB higher than most other locations (easily 
possible), your transmit reports as measured at the other end are 
going to be 10 dB better than the receive reports you tell the other 
station.  Your local noise could be higher due to many possible 
factors ... local industrial activity,  a neighbor with an older 
plasma TV, somebody nearby using a welder, poor quality LED lights, a 
noisy internet router, etc.


The same thing might be causing your first problem if your local 
noise level isn't consistent, which it probably isn't.  It is 
possible that sometimes you simply don't hear the other station's 
reply.  In your example, you wouldn't know if the other station had 
already sent R-02 previously if your noise level had popped up 
briefly and covered it up.  WSJT-X doesn't tell you how many times 
the other station had sent the same report.  You say it only happens 
rarely, so maybe the fact that doing something else fixes the problem 
is simply coincidence based upon small sample size.


Obviously I cannot say for certain ... I am just trying to offer 
helpful speculation.  But a higher than typical noise level at your 
location ... for any reason ... could produce similar symptoms.


I have the opposite "problem".  The noise level at my QTH is very 
low, so I often give better reports than I receive and I often hear 
(read) transmissions from other stations who can't hear me even 
though I have good antennas and live on a steep hillside.  For the 
same signal strength each direction a station I can consistently 
read  at -22 or -24 will usually not be able to decode me.


Best regards,
Dave AB7E





___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel


___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel]

Thank you Dave !

Well, . I live remote from any local noice - If I tune right outside the FT8 
frequency I have nothing at all on my S meter .
I can have a SSB QSO with stations not even lifting my S meter at all.  The 
IC-7851 have a grate receiver

But what it might be - is that - like just now on 20M - I have some Spanish 
stations peeking my S meter to 9+30dB
And the station list is giving them +20 on the dB indication
Right now - more than 50% of my receiving stations have more than +10dB to 
+16dB on that scale
And sure the AGC is limiting the ability to receive weak stations on the same 
frequency ?  

To the other observation - For me it looks like the SW is decoding the same 
frame over and over gain ?

As long as the receiving station is calling me - and I answer - it all will 
continue as long as the other station is calling me - and the signal level will 
be the same all the time - it never changes ?
As soon as I change my receiving OR transmitting tone frequency by 1 Hz up then 
down - or hitting the CQ frame selector - then at the same time  the same 
station is replying with its receiving level - and then all is ok from there   
It's like its already decoded, but not shown - as it pops up straight away - 
not delayed until decoding next timeframe and so on ?

Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF




> On 14 Aug 2019, at 19:46, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Greetings Steinar.
> 
> It seems to me that both of your issues could be caused by a high local noise 
> level at your end.  Let's look at the second issue first.
> 
> WSJT-X doesn't report the absolute signal strength ... it reports the signal 
> strength relative to a (if I remember correctly) 2.5 KHz bandwidth at the 
> receiving location.  As an example, if your local noise level is 10 dB higher 
> than most other locations (easily possible), your transmit reports as 
> measured at the other end are going to be 10 dB better than the receive 
> reports you tell the other station.  Your local noise could be higher due to 
> many possible factors ... local industrial activity,  a neighbor with an 
> older plasma TV, somebody nearby using a welder, poor quality LED lights, a 
> noisy internet router, etc.
> 
> The same thing might be causing your first problem if your local noise level 
> isn't consistent, which it probably isn't.  It is possible that sometimes you 
> simply don't hear the other station's reply.  In your example, you wouldn't 
> know if the other station had already sent R-02 previously if your noise 
> level had popped up briefly and covered it up.  WSJT-X doesn't tell you how 
> many times the other station had sent the same report.  You say it only 
> happens rarely, so maybe the fact that doing something else fixes the problem 
> is simply coincidence based upon small sample size.  
> 
> Obviously I cannot say for certain ... I am just trying to offer helpful 
> speculation.  But a higher than typical noise level at your location ... for 
> any reason ... could produce similar symptoms.
> 
> I have the opposite "problem".  The noise level at my QTH is very low, so I 
> often give better reports than I receive and I often hear (read) 
> transmissions from other stations who can't hear me even though I have good 
> antennas and live on a steep hillside.  For the same signal strength each 
> direction a station I can consistently read  at -22 or -24 will usually not 
> be able to decode me.
> 
> Best regards,
> Dave   AB7E
> 

___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[David Gilbert]

Greetings Steinar.

It seems to me that both of your issues could be caused by a high local 
noise level at your end.  Let's look at the second issue first.


WSJT-X doesn't report the absolute signal strength ... it reports the 
signal strength relative to a (if I remember correctly) 2.5 KHz 
bandwidth at the receiving location.  As an example, if your local noise 
level is 10 dB higher than most other locations (easily possible), your 
transmit reports as measured at the other end are going to be 10 dB 
better than the receive reports you tell the other station.  Your local 
noise could be higher due to many possible factors ... local industrial 
activity,  a neighbor with an older plasma TV, somebody nearby using a 
welder, poor quality LED lights, a noisy internet router, etc.


The same thing might be causing your first problem if your local noise 
level isn't consistent, which it probably isn't.  It is possible that 
sometimes you simply don't hear the other station's reply.  In your 
example, you wouldn't know if the other station had already sent R-02 
previously if your noise level had popped up briefly and covered it up.  
WSJT-X doesn't tell you how many times the other station had sent the 
same report.  You say it only happens rarely, so maybe the fact that 
doing something else fixes the problem is simply coincidence based upon 
small sample size.


Obviously I cannot say for certain ... I am just trying to offer helpful 
speculation.  But a higher than typical noise level at your location ... 
for any reason ... could produce similar symptoms.


I have the opposite "problem".  The noise level at my QTH is very low, 
so I often give better reports than I receive and I often hear (read) 
transmissions from other stations who can't hear me even though I have 
good antennas and live on a steep hillside.  For the same signal 
strength each direction a station I can consistently read  at -22 or -24 
will usually not be able to decode me.


Best regards,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/14/2019 5:23 AM, Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel wrote:


Hello all!
Sorry if this issue has ben taken up before, but after looking into 
old messages - I don’t find any


I have used WSJT-X on my Mac now for 6 months and logged more than 
5000 FT8 entries in my logbook by it.


But there is one thing I’m not able to find out why happening .

When a station is calling me - I do reply by ex. Foo bar -14 for 
example 5 times - and nothing happens - I just click CQ again and the 
first message is a reply from the calling station by R-02
It seems to me that the decoding is somewhat stuck - and when I just 
do something - calling a new CQ - or answering another station - then 
it decodes the first one - straight away
I can also just change my frequency a little - one down and one up 
again - just do something


It dos not happen often 0-5 times a day - and just hitting CQ works 
every time ?


I find it happens more often now in the v2.1.0 than in the older 
versions , but as it could go days between this is happening - its not 
so easy to find a red tread in this


I’m using v2.1.0 from my IC-7851 into my iMac 4.2GHz Intel Core i7
This iMac is dedicated for this use and except for MacLoggerDX - there 
is no other prowesses / programs running.


I’m also a little concerned by the receiving “sensibility” - as I see 
from   pskreporter that I’m heard by 10+ times as many as I can receive.
I do decode down to -22 -24 , but when I get the report - I always 
have a better TX report than I can give at my RX report.

And yes - I’m only running 100W (sometimes 200W)
And yes - it could be the antenna, but I have the same TX/RX 
differences on all my 3 antennas - 160m loop, vertical and 2-3 element 
beam
Have measured the RX of the radio - and it's up to spec - so its not 
the radio


So what makes the ability to receive and decode - Antenna - radio - and ?



Regards
Steinar Fremme

___
E-mail: stei...@fremme.at 
Phone: +436649263301
Skype: stfremme
Web:    https://1250rt.com
Ham:   OE4KSF






___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel


___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

Re: [wsjt-devel] Decoding issues

[Claude Frantz]

On 8/14/19 2:23 PM, Steinar Fremme via wsjt-devel wrote:

Hi Steinar & all,

When a station is calling me - I do reply by ex. Foo bar -14 for example 
5 times - and nothing happens - I just click CQ again and the first 
message is a reply from the calling station by R-02
It seems to me that the decoding is somewhat stuck - and when I just do 
something - calling a new CQ - or answering another station - then it 
decodes the first one - straight away


Please note that not all sent messages can always be decoded at the 
targeted station. This apply in both directions. Note also that the 
propagation is not always of the same quality in both direction.



It dos not happen often 0-5 times a day


IMHO, this is not a pathologic situation.


and just hitting CQ works every time ?


The station responding to CQ has always heard your signal, this is sure. 
This situation is a little bit different than the previously cited one.


I’m also a little concerned by the receiving “sensibility” - as I see 
from   pskreporter that I’m heard by 10+ times as many as I can receive.
I do decode down to -22 -24 , but when I get the report - I always have 
a better TX report than I can give at my RX report.


The propagation is not always of the same quality in both direction. The 
difference can be so big, that signals can only be decoded in one 
direction, making QSO's impossible. When using pskreporter, you can 
observe such situations very well.


Call CQ and observe minutes later on pskreporter where your signal has 
been heard. It's futile to call stations in regions from where your 
signal has not been reported. But the propagation can change quickly.



So what makes the ability to receive and decode - Antenna - radio - and ?


... and the operator.

Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT)


___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel