Re: [Wtr-general] Does Sending Keys work on windows 2003 server OS?
From what I've seen, send keys works just fine in Windows Server 2003. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] IE.new_process hangs my program
Shawn, I've seen this happen before on some machines that I have. I think this could be a result of the remote procedure call priority being set too low. I'm not sure what the fix is but the problem itself exists. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] Our contribution to Watir
Hello all, We've been working with Watir for a while now and sort of using watir was a browser driver for our monitoring product. Internally, there were monitoring directives/functions that we found useful in our proprietary monitoring language. I've reproduced these functions to be used with watir as we move to a more open platform. The details can be found at [http://jira.openqa.org/browse/WTR-162|http://jira.openqa.org/browse/WTR-162] Please take a look and contribute any comments or code where you can. Any help would be appreciated. Our view is that Watir is a useful tool in automated testing and we are trying to use that to develop a package that could be paired with Watir for performance testing. This contribution is only the beginning. We have more useful things that will be coming down the pipe and we look forward to contributing more in the future. Bach Le Software Engineer Webmetrics Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] 'Require' Lots Of Files
What I do is if I have to require a certain set of files repeatedly, I just place it in another .rb file and require that .rb file which will in turn require all of the files you need. So I would define a file called requirements.rb and then inside that file place require 'x' require 'y' require 'z' and in the ruby script i'm running, put require 'requirements.rb' or something that way you don't require files you don't need ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Question about IE.new_process and Vista
I thought the two problems are related because in neither instance was watir able to find the window after it was created (I didn't look into the specifics). I did look into it some more after this post and I found out that it was Vista's security settings that caused watir to break. Turning off these security settings fixed it. I don't remember the details right now but as soon as I get my vista box up and running again, I will update the JIRA ticket and this thread with the details. I'm back on my old machine now which is running XP. I'll switch back a little later in the day so I'll update in a few hours. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Question about IE.new_process and Vista
So here is how I fixed my problem: 1. Goto the Control Panel 2. Click on User Accounts 3. Click on User Accounts again 4. Select the account you are using 5. Click Turn User Account Control on or off 6. Turn User Account Control off This allowed Shell.Application.Window to find the correct window when IE is created in a test. Hope that helps everyone else. I'll update the JIRA ticket as well. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] Question about IE.new_process and Vista
I've installed watir 1165 and tried using IE.new_process on Windows Vista and in both tests and irb, IE.new_process fails. It fails after creating the window when it tries to get the process id from hwnd. I have a coworker who installed this on his Vista machine and it works fine. The problem is that Shell.Application.windows does not get all of the windows but just the ones that are browsing the file system so the IE windows do not show up in this list. It ends up doing in an infinite loop and never breaks out of it. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this? ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Question about IE.new_process and Vista
Bret, the problem actually exists for IE.new as well. I create a new IE window with IE.new and it creates the window but when I call the goto method to navigate to any page, a new IE window shows up and the navigation is done in that window. I've updated the ticket to include this information. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] unknown property or method `readyState'
Hi Charley, I just installed 1165 today and I have noticed the same error that was mentioned in this thread. The error revolves around the following piece of code: documents_to_wait_for = [EMAIL PROTECTED] while doc = documents_to_wait_for.shift until doc.readyState == complete sleep 0.2; s.spin end and specific the line that says doc.readyState. The page I am testing has lots of frames and this is possibly what is causing this error. It usually says 'method_missing' when it executes this line and crashes the entire script. I've also only noticed it when the page I am testing is running a bit slow -Bach ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] IE.new_process question
I know that IE.new_process uses the CreateProcess method in kernel32.dll to create a new IE process. This same method allows the user to change the environment variables for this specific instance of IE (by setting parameter 7 in the call to CreateProcess). Does anyone know which environment variables are required when IE starts up and how I can set up the environment block to pass to CreateProcess? Thanks -Bach ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] IE.new_process question
Nevermind. When creating IE through the CreateProcess method, IE will need to read the SystemRoot environment variable. ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] http_error_checker on IE7
Charley and Paul, I'm running the latest gem and trying to use the navigation checker with IE7, however, the code that was committed does not work. The get the following error: 1) Error: test_1(TestCase): WIN32OLERuntimeError: navigator OLE error code:80070005 in Unknown Access is denied. HRESULT error code:0x80020009 Exception occurred. C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1217:in `method_missing' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1217:in `check_for_http_error' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir/contrib/page_checker.rb:26 C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1849:in `call' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1849:in `run_error_checks' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1849:in `each' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1849:in `run_error_checks' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1838:in `wait' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1692:in `goto' http_errors.rb:12:in `test_1' and the problem is on the following line: n = self.document.invoke('parentWindow').navigator.appVersion it appears that navigator is the missing method so this line throws and error. Do you guys know of any work around? Thanks. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6349messageID=19888#19888 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] http_error_checker on IE7
I just set up apache on my local machine and hit the localhost for a document that doesn't exist. I played around with it some more after I posted that last message. I fired up IRB and issued the command that way and it worked. So i went back and ran my test and it works now. I don't know why it didn't work before. I'm gonna test it out on the 2003 machine again to see if i can pinpoint the problem. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6349messageID=19891#19891 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] http_error_checker on IE7
Paul, here are the steps i used to produce the problem 1. IRB 2. create new IE window which should goto about:blank 3. issue command ie.document.invoke('parentWindow').navigator.appVersion 4. I do not get the error 5. call ie.goto('http://localhost/doesnotexist.html') and I get a HTTP 404 not found in the browser 6. call ie.document.invoke('parentWindow').navigator.appVersion This is where I get the error. It seems to work on every page except the error ones. I get the following error: 1) Error: test_1(TestCase): WIN32OLERuntimeError: navigator OLE error code:80070005 in Unknown Access is denied. HRESULT error code:0x80020009 Exception occurred. c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1216:in `method_missing' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1216:in `check_for_http_error' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir/contrib/page_checker.rb:26 c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1845:in `call' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1845:in `run_error_checks' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1845:in `each' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1845:in `run_error_checks' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1834:in `wait' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1162/./watir.rb:1688:in `goto' http_error.rb:13:in `test_1' for this script: require 'rubygems' require 'watir' require 'test/unit' require 'watir/contrib/page_checker' include Watir class TestCase Test::Unit::TestCase def test_1 ie = IE.new ie.add_checker(PageCheckers::NAVIGATION_CHECKER) ie.goto('http://localhost/doesnotexist.html') end end - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6349messageID=19893#19893 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] http_error_checker on IE7
Paul, do you know if it's possible to read the response headers from the server for a given page with IE? I've been looking around and I can't find any information on it. I'd be happy to write the code if someone can point me in the right direction. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6349messageID=19897#19897 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] Problem automating Gmail
Hello all, I'm writing some tests to test gmail and I'm having a slight problem clicking on the menu items to the right in a gmail window. Below is the script I am using. The problem is that I want to click on the text that says Starred right beneath Inbox but no matter if I use span.click or span.fireEvent(onClick) the click does not trigger an event. require 'rubygems' require 'watir' require 'test/unit' include Watir class TestCase Test::Unit::TestCase def test_1 $IE0 = IE.new $IE0.goto(www.gmail.com) $IE0.text_field(:id, 'Email').set('enter_username_here') $IE0.text_field(:id, 'Passwd').set('enter_password_here') $IE0.button(:name, 'null').click #Click on Starred $IE0.frame(:name, main).frame(:name, v1).span(:id, ds_starred).click end end Any help would be appreciated. Please fill in the username and password when running otherwise it wont work. Thanks. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6882messageID=19812#19812 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] How to clear the cache of the browser?
Hi Paul, I actually came across a problem with the method I described above today. I was scripting a page for a customer and the problem with the cookies occured. I had no idea what was wrong until I remembered that you mentioned that the cookies were the source of your problems. So thanks, you saved me hours of debugging. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6796messageID=19764#19764 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] How to clear the cache of the browser?
Swarma, Actually, I believe keeping the cookies from writing to disk is a better solution than the one Paul is suggesting (using code to delete it). In IE7 (don't know about 6 but I think it is possible). In IE7, do the following: 1. Tools - Internet Options 2. Click on the Privacy Tab 3. Click on the Advanced button 4. Check Override automatic cookie handling 5. Under First-Party Cookies, select Block 6. Under Third-Party Cookies, select Block 7. Check Always allow session cookies This will keep the cookies in memory for as long as the browser is open and clears them when the browser is closed. Cookies are never written to disk so the data does not persist across multiple IE processes. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6796messageID=19696#19696 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] How to clear the cache of the browser?
Thanks for the info Paul. We are currently also doing some tests with clearing cookies and cache. I'll be sure to test it out to make sure it works in that situation. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6796messageID=19712#19712 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] bring_to_front for window without a title
I'm writing a test for a page that does not have a title. The IE window only has the url, however, IE.bring_to_front uses AutoIt's WinActivate function to bring the window to front but AutoIt can only bring a window to the front if a title is specified. Anyone know how I can do it? I thought about sending Alt+Tab until IE.front? is true but looking at the front? code, it uses AutoIt again to check the page status via the title so dead end again. P.S. This is not a page I own so I cannot simply add a title if you're thinking about fixing it that way. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6572messageID=18736#18736 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] bring_to_front for window without a title
I found out that you can do ie.document.focus and that brings the window to the front but that seems like a hackish way of doing it. Anyone know a better solution? - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6572messageID=18737#18737 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] bring_to_front for window without a title
Thanks Bret, I guess I'll go with that then. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6572messageID=18739#18739 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] bring_to_front for window without a title
Paul, I looked at the documentation for AutoIt but it seems like all of the functions rely on matching the titles in order to interact with the window. The only references that i saw for using HWND was the WinClose or something. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6572messageID=18747#18747 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Speed of Firewatir vs. Watir
Hi Angrez, Thanks for clarifying that. Although it does work on watir, do you have any idea why it doesn't work on FireWatir? Seems to be that would be nice to have both the relative path and the absolute path for the element src. If you'd like, i'd be happy to take a look at the code and perhaps come up with a solution. Thanks for your hard work. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6078messageID=17320#17320 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Speed of Firewatir vs. Watir
Hi Angrez, I just installed the latest gem, 1.0.1. I ran the same test again the script errors at this line: $FF.button(:src, 'http://www.anntaylor.com/Images/Global/placeitemsinbag.gif').click I get the following error: 1) Error: test_1(TestCase): FireWatir::Exception::UnknownObjectException: Unable to locate object, using src and http://www.anntaylor.com/Images/Global/placeitemsinbag.gif C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/firewatir-1.0.1-mswin32/./MozillaBaseElement.rb:739:in `assert_exists' C:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/firewatir-1.0.1-mswin32/./MozillaBaseElement.rb:897:in `click' FireWatir_AnnTaylor.rb:18:in `test_1' - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6078messageID=17256#17256 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] working with bitmap
try this im = Image.new('C:\\Documents and Settings\\Administrator\\My Documents\\My Pictures\\SAI1.jpg') - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6089messageID=17113#17113 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Speed of Firewatir vs. Watir
Hi Angrez, I did not have any problems installing FireWatir. I followed the installation guide at http://code.google.com/p/firewatir/ and it worked like a charm. I tried to run a few scripts that I had successfully run with Watir and they seemed to break when it got to clicking buttons in forms. Other than that, it worked very well. Keep up the good work. I'd also like to help you guys out if you need it. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6078messageID=17058#17058 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] working with bitmap
I think he means checking if one image is the same as another image pixel-by-pixel and if that is the case, rmagick should be able to do the trick although I have not tested it out myself. Message was edited by: beefandbachle - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6089messageID=17076#17076 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Managing the Cookie Space with Watir
Since no one seems to know, I think I have found a solution and I want to share with everyone just in case someone is having this problem. In Internet Explorer 7, goto Internet Options-Privacy-Advanced. Block First and Third Party cookies, however, enable session cookies. These cookies will stay in memory as long as the IE process is open. Cookies are never written to disk. The cookie space seemed, in my tests, separate from other IE processes are are running. For example, if I logged in to yahoo mail or something with one IE window, and started up another IE instance, the 2nd instance is unaware that I am logged in with the first instance. Hope that helps other people. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6023messageID=16927#16927 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] Managing the Cookie Space with Watir
I haven't had much time recently to work with watir but I have come across a problem I have not been able to figure out. Here's an example of my problem: 1. I go to a web store 2. I place an item in the shopping cart 3. I finish the script and exit 4. When i run it again, the item may already be in the shopping cart and break the assumption that I have an empty shopping cart I was wondering if anyone has come up with a solution to this problem. Ideally, IE should delete all cookies written during the session so that IE can start up new again when I run the script again otherwise the test will fail. I read this page (http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/wtr-general/2005-March/001276.html) but I dont think the cookie spaces between the opened IE instances are separate. As far as I know, they all write to the same temporary internet files so cookies are shared between instances. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=6023messageID=16874#16874 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] spiderwatir!
This is very interesting news. Opens a whole new arena for functionality testing by allowing us to test even more rich web pages like those using flash, which if I'm not mistaken, is not possible with watir and difficult if not impossible with other technologies. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=5140messageID=14309#14309 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] interacting with AJAX drag and drop
Max, check out this link http://zbarzone.blogspot.com/2006/05/drag-and-drop-with-watir.html -Bach Message was edited by: beefandbachle - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=3397messageID=9494#9494 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Watir 1.5 Specifying Element in Form Error
Rand, ie.button(:src, 'https://www.entertainment.com/images/button_continue.gif').click should be enough to click the button, however, for consistency reasons there shouldn't be a reason why it works without the form specified when it is in fact a form element. As I noted before, it does work in 1.4.1 and it is not only more explicit and clear when using it with form included, it is logical and intuitive. I took your suggestion and tried it with image instead of button and unfortunately it does not work. I tried both with ie.form(:name, ...).image and just ie.image. Thanks for replying, I didn't even think about using image but in this case, it didnt work. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=3381messageID=9501#9501 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Watir 1.5 Specifying Element in Form Error
Thanks Charley. - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=3381messageID=9511#9511 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
[Wtr-general] Watir 1.5 Specifying Element in Form Error
I was running the latest stable release of Watir 1.4 but had the window attach error which was fixed with version 1.5 development build but after I installed 1.5, I can no longer specify a specific element within a form such as: ie.form(:id, form1).button(:src, http://www;).click Was this feature removed from version 1.5? How would you select a certain button in a page that has two forms and the buttons are identical. I think that being able to specify a button by the form object is a lot clearer than specifying the button by index. Thanks. -Bach ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general
Re: [Wtr-general] Watir 1.5 Specifying Element in Form Error
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Here is an example of it working in 1.4.1 and not in the 1.5 development build. ie = IE.new ie.goto(www.entertainment.com) ie.link(:text, 'Buy the Book').click ie.link(:text, 'Chicago North (2007)').click ie.image(:index, '4').click ie.button(:name, 'checkout').click ie.form(:name, 'shipaddress').button(:src, 'https://www.entertainment.com/images/button_continue.gif').click I was testing this on the entertainment.com website with the above watir code and it is working correctly in 1.4.1 by clicking the right button, however, in 1.5, i get the following error message: Output for 1.5 1) Error: test_1(TestCase): Watir::Exception::UnknownObjectException: Unable to locate object, using src and https://www.entertainment.com/images/button_continue.gif c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1054/./watir.rb:2267:in `assert_exists' c:/ruby/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/watir-1.5.1.1054/./watir.rb:2405:in `click' test.rb:15:in `test_1' Output for 1.4.1 ruby test.rb Loaded suite test Started . Finished in 21.531 seconds. 1 tests, 0 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors Exit code: 0 By the way, there is only one form on the page though I'm not sure that should make a difference. I'll log the bug in JIRA as well. Thanks. -Bach - Posted via Jive Forums http://forums.openqa.org/thread.jspa?threadID=3381messageID=9425#9425 ___ Wtr-general mailing list Wtr-general@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/wtr-general