Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Tom Lane via X11-users 
Maximilian Ebert via X11-users  writes:
> It also works without reboot to restart autoFS:
> sudo automount -vc

Hm, that used to work, but for me it does not since Catalina.
I do not think automount has enough privilege to create the
/net symlink if it missed the chance to do so during system
startup.

regards, tom lane
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Maximilian Ebert via X11-users 
It also works without reboot to restart autoFS:

sudo automount -vc

So edit the auto_master and then run the above command.

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> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Tom Lane  wrote:
> 
> Maximilian Ebert via X11-users  > writes:
>> tom, this is exactly what I was thinking! I couldn’t find a way to fix the 
>> NFS thing.
> 
> It's not *hard*, it's just annoying.
> 
> (1) Edit /etc/auto_master to uncomment the line
> 
> #/net-hosts  -nobrowse,hidefromfinder,nosuid
> 
> (2) Reboot.  (There does not seem to be any lesser way to get this
> to take effect, because the /net symlink isn't there at all otherwise;
> and you can't cause it to be created after / has been made read-only.)
> 
> I filed a bug complaining about Catalina re-commenting that line
> on every update, but it's been radio silence so far ... which is
> par for the course with Apple.  I wonder why they bother to have
> a bug reporter mechanism when it's such a black hole.
> 
>   regards, tom lane


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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Tom Lane via X11-users 
Maximilian Ebert via X11-users  writes:
> tom, this is exactly what I was thinking! I couldn’t find a way to fix the 
> NFS thing.

It's not *hard*, it's just annoying.

(1) Edit /etc/auto_master to uncomment the line

#/net-hosts  -nobrowse,hidefromfinder,nosuid

(2) Reboot.  (There does not seem to be any lesser way to get this
to take effect, because the /net symlink isn't there at all otherwise;
and you can't cause it to be created after / has been made read-only.)

I filed a bug complaining about Catalina re-commenting that line
on every update, but it's been radio silence so far ... which is
par for the course with Apple.  I wonder why they bother to have
a bug reporter mechanism when it's such a black hole.

regards, tom lane
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Maximilian Ebert via X11-users 
tom, this is exactly what I was thinking! I couldn’t find a way to fix the NFS 
thing.

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> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:50 PM, Tom Lane via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Don MacQueen via X11-users  > writes:
>> As far as I can tell, X Windows is still the best environment for certain 
>> types of work, including remote computing. I would agree that XWin users are 
>> outside Apple’s concept of their customer base.
> 
> Yeah.  But AFAICS, there's not really any risk of X11 not working on
> next-gen macOS.  What we're whining about here is only that there won't
> be an "officially supported" build, and we'll have to get it from MacPorts
> or build it ourselves.
> 
>> But, remarkably, even after upgrading one of my machines to Catalina I
>> was *still* able to edit /etc/auto_master and create /etc/auto_nfs to
>> enable NFS auto mounting of an exported file system.
> 
> *This* is what worries me.  Every time I do an OS update, Catalina reverts
> /etc/auto_master to disable NFS automounts.  I'm afraid that that means
> Apple is thinking of dropping NFS support altogether --- and that does not
> seem like something that can be stuck back on top, like X11 can be.
> 
>   regards, tom lane
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Don MacQueen via X11-users 
As far as I can tell, X Windows is still the best environment for certain types 
of work, including remote computing. I would agree that XWin users are outside 
Apple’s concept of their customer base.

But, remarkably, even after upgrading one of my machines to Catalina I was 
*still* able to edit /etc/auto_master and create /etc/auto_nfs to enable NFS 
auto mounting of an exported file system. So there’s hope…  (btw, if one wants 
“always there when you need it” availability of a network file system, NFS with 
automounting is still superior to SMB and AFS, in my experience)

Don MacQueen
m...@comcast.net



> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Mick Mueck via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I use X11 on OS X every day, and I'd be screwed if it didn't exist. That 
> being said, let's be real here. X11 isn't even on viable life support and 
> it's been that way for years, plus it's about the worst implementation of X11 
> on any platform out there (just calling it like I see it). Seriously, Apple 
> don't care about X11 one little bit, and with all the work they're looking 
> down the barrel of with the new hardware they're going to care even less. 
> That being said, nothing would please me more than being proven wrong!
> 
> There's someone like me in every crowd, sorry. I'm a circuit designer, not a 
> software developer - if I could program worth a lick I'd chip in and help. 
> I'm very glad that we even have what we have, but I just don't see things 
> getting any better.
> 
> Bracing myself to be shot down in flames - I surely asked for it...
> 
>> On 2020.0627, at 17:34, JF Mezei via X11-users > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Platforms State of the Union:
>> 
>> https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/
>> 
>> at 15:30
>> And they will be amazing Unix Machine fopr developpers and scientific
>> communities for any software they like.
>> 
>> Perhaps some pressure on Apple to produce a new XQuarts kit that can
>> easily be installed on the Macs? (since they mentioned Unix apps for
>> developpers and scientific community).
>> 
>> 
>> At 20:20:
>> Discussion on the porting of open sources software.
>> Homebrews and Macports in the list.  (as are Zlig abd FFmpeg).
>> But XQuarts not there.
>> 
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Mick Mueck via X11-users 
I use X11 on OS X every day, and I'd be screwed if it didn't exist. That being 
said, let's be real here. X11 isn't even on viable life support and it's been 
that way for years, plus it's about the worst implementation of X11 on any 
platform out there (just calling it like I see it). Seriously, Apple don't care 
about X11 one little bit, and with all the work they're looking down the barrel 
of with the new hardware they're going to care even less. That being said, 
nothing would please me more than being proven wrong!

There's someone like me in every crowd, sorry. I'm a circuit designer, not a 
software developer - if I could program worth a lick I'd chip in and help. I'm 
very glad that we even have what we have, but I just don't see things getting 
any better.

Bracing myself to be shot down in flames - I surely asked for it...

> On 2020.0627, at 17:34, JF Mezei via X11-users  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Platforms State of the Union:
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/
> 
> at 15:30
> And they will be amazing Unix Machine fopr developpers and scientific
> communities for any software they like.
> 
> Perhaps some pressure on Apple to produce a new XQuarts kit that can
> easily be installed on the Macs? (since they mentioned Unix apps for
> developpers and scientific community).
> 
> 
> At 20:20:
> Discussion on the porting of open sources software.
> Homebrews and Macports in the list.  (as are Zlig abd FFmpeg).
> But XQuarts not there.
> 
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread JF Mezei via X11-users 



Platforms State of the Union:

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/

at 15:30
And they will be amazing Unix Machine fopr developpers and scientific
communities for any software they like.

Perhaps some pressure on Apple to produce a new XQuarts kit that can
easily be installed on the Macs? (since they mentioned Unix apps for
developpers and scientific community).


At 20:20:
Discussion on the porting of open sources software.
Homebrews and Macports in the list.  (as are Zlig abd FFmpeg).
But XQuarts not there.

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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread René J . V . Bertin via X11-users 
On Friday June 26 2020 16:35:31 JF Mezei wrote:

>Since ARM and Intel share little-endian and 64 bits, the code should
>compile cleanly.

For the 64-bit aspect yes (though I expect that the X server will compile 
cleanly on 32 bit systems as well). Endianness typically does not cause issues 
at compile time, it's (almost?) purely a runtime aspect.

Note that ARM is bi-endian; apparently it does default to little-endian, but we 
all know that Apple's PPC machines (also ARM architecture!) were through and 
through big-endian (so much so that I had simply written them off as 
big-endian, period). With good reason AFAIC; it makes reasoning about (and 
implementing) just about any operation at the bit level (pixels...) such much 
easier. Well, to me at least ...

> unix applications will be supported

Did he give a definition of what those are? I'm guessing that the OS is going 
to remain a certified Unix, which would make any supported app a Unix 
application ;)

R
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

2020-06-27 Thread Maximilian Ebert via X11-users 
Actually I remember now that I saw that OpenGL remains in a YouTube video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfhAtxdLDLM 


So I am not sure if it is true. But he says so.

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> On Jun 26, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Maximilian Ebert  wrote:
> 
> I saw in the documentation that OpenGL will ship with ARM64 Big Sur.
> 
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> support inquiries: supp...@chemcomp.com 
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> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 4:35 PM, JF Mezei via X11-users 
>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Couple of generic comments:
>> 
>> Since ARM and Intel share little-endian and 64 bits, the code should
>> compile cleanly.
>> 
>> However, Apple has mentioned that it will be using its own graphics
>> cards on the new ARM-based Macs I am more concerned about whether the
>> graphical API used by XQuartz continues to be supported.
>> 
>> 
>> What is interesting is that in the keynote, Craig F explicitely
>> mentioned unix applications will be supported, and they also provided a
>> list of public do,ain apps they had already ported. I would have to go
>> back to that 2 secodn slide to see of Xquartz was there. I had just
>> spotted ffmpeg.
>> 
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>> 


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