On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 01:59:15PM -0400, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> I know very well that CAB is the kill switch, but it just occurred to
> me that it triggered by accident nevertheless. I was editing around
> in a graphical editor, where word-based movement is done with Ctrl.
> Certain commands requ
dan wrote on September 23 2008:
>
>> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>>
>> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident.
>
>Alternative solution: Allow users to learn by experience that
>Ctrl-Alt-Backspace kills X ... the more disasterous this is for
>them, the quicke
Hi,
On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 02:52:42PM +1030, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 02:55:00AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > I don't know whether this is really related (I'm pretty sure I
> > experienced that with kbd driver as well), but the fact that zap
> > depends on xkb is
I think that the key combination should remain the same.
However there could be some workaround for accidental X Server zapping, like
needing to press the combo twice or more, or bringing up a dialog box to
confirm that the user wants to close the X Server, or maybe even both
i.e. by default
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 02:55:00AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 01:52:53PM +0930, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> > driver kbd: hardcodes Ctrl + Alt + Backspace. (IMHO that's a bug anyway)
> > driver evdev: the XKB map decides what happens.
>
> I don't know whether this is rea
Le Tue 23/09/2008 à 22:53 Ben Gamari (FOSS) à écrit:
> perhaps making use of the Pause/Break key in replacement of the
> Backspace key would be workable.
I strongly disagree, Some keyboards don't have such a key, so for those
unlucky people, killing X wouldn't be possible any more.
Mildred
--
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:19:43 +0200
Harald Braumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When zapping X is made impossible, users will find out about
> ctrl-prnt-b by accident.
Sorry, I mean alt-prnt-b.
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:52:55 + (UTC)
Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Corbin Simpson gmail.com> writes:
> ...
> > Seriously, no.
>
> Your vote has been duly noted.
>
> > Zap once, learn forever. No different than anything else,
> > really;
>
> I still believe that Xorg should make
Hi,
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 01:52:53PM +0930, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> driver kbd: hardcodes Ctrl + Alt + Backspace. (IMHO that's a bug anyway)
> driver evdev: the XKB map decides what happens.
I don't know whether this is really related (I'm pretty sure I
experienced that with kbd driver as well
2008/9/23 Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
> * Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
> * Or require
Jason Spiro wrote:
> What do you think? Should Xorg change this key sequence? Please vote
> "yes" or "no". You can add comments too. If you reply only to me by
> private mail, I will eventually summarize your reply to the list.
Since I do testing on new drivers it would be inconvenient for me.
> I think that requiring two presses of Ctrl-Alt-Backspace in close
succession ...
FWIW that is close to the way SunRays (thin clients) work, except for
the close part.
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> "Jason" == Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jason> It would work fine for me. But it's not good enough for most
Jason> users, since most Xorg users don't know how to edit their
Jason> xorg.conf files.
The question was asked wrong.
The question should not have been,
> "Jason" == Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jason> As for the Ctrl+K+X idea (which I don't know is as safe;
Jason> 2. is it possible that
In emacs:
C-x k runs `kill-buffer'
a common occurance.
C-x C-k runs `edit-kbd-macro'
I've often wound up running the second o
Beso schrieb:
> 2008/9/24 Glynn Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Ben Gamari (FOSS) wrote:
>>
>>> My completely unprofessional opinion is that Jason brings up a really
>>> good point here. Accidentally zapping Xorg can not only be extremely
>>> frustrating, but it could be extremely confusing for
Beso gmail.com> writes:
> maybe could be interesting the adding of a function to remap the
> keyboards instead of mapping an alternative.
You need to remember that when this function is used, the X server
is in a bad state in some way, thus it is paramount that the code
used is as simple as po
2008/9/24 Glynn Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Ben Gamari (FOSS) wrote:
>
>> My completely unprofessional opinion is that Jason brings up a really
>> good point here. Accidentally zapping Xorg can not only be extremely
>> frustrating, but it could be extremely confusing for a new user. This
>> b
Ben Gamari (FOSS) wrote:
> My completely unprofessional opinion is that Jason brings up a really
> good point here. Accidentally zapping Xorg can not only be extremely
> frustrating, but it could be extremely confusing for a new user. This
> being said, I also agree that any change that might be
I have never ever ever ever accidentally hit the zap key combo, and
neither has anyone of the 5 linux users in my office! The closet I have
come is playing doom 12 years ago, without a mouse, using ctrl for
strafe, alt for fire and delete for change weapons
--
Jacob Briggs
Systems Enginee
My completely unprofessional opinion is that Jason brings up a really
good point here. Accidentally zapping Xorg can not only be extremely
frustrating, but it could be extremely confusing for a new user. This
being said, I also agree that any change that might be zapping
unreliable or even unduly d
dan entropy.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:33:49 +0530, CyberOrg
> opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> > Since openSUSE 11.0 users have to hit ctrl+alt+backspace twice quickly
> > to kill X.
>
> The problem with this is that when I want to kill X, it's usually because
> it's crashed, an
no
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2008/9/23 Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> In Linux, Ctrl-Alt-Del reboots unconditionally only in console mode. Only
> expert users use console mode. When X is running, on all my Linux machines,
> Ctrl-Alt-Del brings up a "shutdown-or-reboot?" dialog instead. The vast
> majority of Linux user
Le Mar 23 septembre 2008 06:22, Peter Hutterer a écrit :
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 02:41:16AM +, Jason Spiro wrote:
>> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>>
>> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
>> change the key sequence users must press
My vote is a "No" (actually a Yo)
After having read this bug, I understand that ctrl+alt+backspace might
be a problem for emacs users.
however, I'm using vim, and there is no such problem. And I don't want
to learn another combination just due to the emacs users. And then there
might be another
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Michel Dänzer wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 03:20 +, Jason Spiro wrote:
>> Tiago Vignatti c3sl.ufpr.br> wrote:
>>>
>>> The "DontZap" option in xorg.conf isn't enough for you? `man 5 xorg.conf`
>>
>> It would work fine for me. But it's not good enough for most users, sin
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 03:20 +, Jason Spiro wrote:
> Tiago Vignatti c3sl.ufpr.br> wrote:
> >
> > The "DontZap" option in xorg.conf isn't enough for you? `man 5 xorg.conf`
>
> It would work fine for me. But it's not good enough for most users, since
> most
> Xorg users don't know how to edit
Jason Spiro wrote:
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
>* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
>* Or require Control+K+X pressed si
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Russell Whitaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Jason Spiro wrote:
>
>>
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must pres
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Jason Spiro wrote:
>
Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
change the key sequence users must press.
* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
* Or require Contr
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 04:39:49AM +, Jason Spiro wrote:
> Thanks for the info. 1. So I guess when using evdev, a way to implement my
> Ctrl+Alt+Bksp then Ctrl+Alt+Y idea would be this?: Ctrl+Alt+Bksp should latch
> some new modifier called ctrl_alt_bksp_was_pressed, and Ctrl+Alt+Y should zap
Peter Hutterer who-t.net> wrote:
>
> driver kbd: hardcodes Ctrl + Alt + Backspace. (IMHO that's a bug anyway)
> driver evdev: the XKB map decides what happens.
>
> In the latter case, all you have to do is change the xkb map. If you can
> convice svu to add it to xkeyboard-config, you only need
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 02:41:16AM +, Jason Spiro wrote:
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
>* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3
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Jason Spiro wrote:
> Corbin Simpson gmail.com> writes:
> ...
>> Seriously, no.
>
> Your vote has been duly noted.
>
>> Zap once, learn forever. No different than anything else,
>> really;
>
> I still believe that Xorg should make it harder to make
Corbin Simpson gmail.com> writes:
...
> Seriously, no.
Your vote has been duly noted.
> Zap once, learn forever. No different than anything else,
> really;
I still believe that Xorg should make it harder to make the mistake of an
accidental zap.
> ever heard of "press Alt+F4 to make it go fast
Igor Mozolevsky hybrid-lab.co.uk> wrote:
...
> Unfortunately, there's no cure for human
> stupidity
There's no cure, but there are workarounds.
> Doesn't CTRL+ALT+DELETE reboot the machine unconditionally?
Not usually. It used to reboot unconditionally way back. But, fifteen years
ago, when
2008/9/23 Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Igor Mozolevsky hybrid-lab.co.uk> writes:
>
>> just because users
>> incompetently press the combination, doesn't mean it's a bad one.
>
> I respectfully disagree. Accidental zaps often cause data loss. Data loss is
> always unacceptable and Xorg shou
Jason Spiro escreveu:
> Tiago Vignatti c3sl.ufpr.br> wrote:
>> The "DontZap" option in xorg.conf isn't enough for you? `man 5 xorg.conf`
>
> It would work fine for me. But it's not good enough for most users, since
> most
> Xorg users don't know how to edit their xorg.conf files.
>
> You could
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Jason Spiro wrote:
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
>* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt
Tiago Vignatti c3sl.ufpr.br> wrote:
>
> The "DontZap" option in xorg.conf isn't enough for you? `man 5 xorg.conf`
It would work fine for me. But it's not good enough for most users, since most
Xorg users don't know how to edit their xorg.conf files.
You could argue that distros could disable za
Jason Spiro escreveu:
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
>* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
>* Or require Control+K+X pressed
Igor Mozolevsky hybrid-lab.co.uk> writes:
> CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE is just the way to do it
OK. That's one "no" vote, duly noted. Thank you for your vote.
I will now respond to the rest of your comments.
> just because users
> incompetently press the combination, doesn't mean it's a bad one.
I
2008/9/23 Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
>
> Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
> change the key sequence users must press.
> * Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
> * Or require
Problem: Many[1] users have killed X by accident.[2]
Solution idea: Make it harder to kill X by accident. E.g. you could
change the key sequence users must press.
* Maybe require Control+Alt+Backspace then Control-Alt-Y.[3]
* Or require Control+K+X pressed simultaneously.
What do you thi
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