Re: [xz-devel] Translation platform for XZ ?

2019-02-22 Thread Mario Blättermann
Hello,

Am Donnerstag, 21. Februar 2019, 18:38:06 CET schrieb Lasse Collin:
> Hello!
> 
> On 2019-02-17 Mario Blättermann wrote:
> > It would be nice if xz would be integrated into a global translation
> > platform.
> 
> Benno Schulenberg asked me about this in 2016. I didn't want to think
> about it at that moment and then it was forgotten. :-/ Let's try again
> now.
> 
He's CCed from now on.

> > Once you are planning a new release, create a pre-release tarball two
> > weeks before. Update the translation template (*.pot) and send it to
> > the TP coordinator. He will merge this new template with the existing
> > po files and send these to the teams (even to that teams which still
> > haven't submitted a translation for xz).
> 
> The instructions to the package maintainers tell to send an URL to a
> source package instead of just sending a POT file. I suppose the URL
> method is the right way. Having the whole package available for testing
> is important.
> 
Yes, of course, I meant a tarball, not a naked pot file.

> > Two weeks later, you pull the updated po files back from TP and make
> > your release. That's all, and for more convenience, it can be simply
> > scripted.
> 
> I worry that it's not that simple. My experience is that I need to look
> through the translations because most have had some errors in aligning
> columns in --help and --list outputs. In some cases it has taken
> several tries until a translator has gotten it correctly done. 
> 
> There is debug/translation.bash to see the translations in action, and
> there are instructions in README section 4. Multiple translators having
> similar problems suggests that there's a problem in my code or
> instructions, but I don't know how to improve.
>
In some translations, the --help output is split into two gettext messages:
the option itself and the corresponding description. This way, translators
don't have to bother with indentations, tab widths and so on. But this behavior
I haven't found very often. Unfortunately, I don't have any coding skills,
that's why I won't be able to help you.

> I wonder should a few experienced translators look at this first so
> that possible problems at my side can be fixed. It doesn't sound great
> if I get 30 new translations and 25 need similar fixes and I need to
> explain them to each translator separately.
> 
Once a new translation arrives (assuming the TP robot sends it to this list)
I will have a look at it.

> From Benno Schulenberg I understood that most xz translators are already
> part of TP (German and French were/are not). This needs to be sorted
> out too, I guess. I suppose it would be convenient if all translations
> were handled via TP (no external translations).
> 
> There hasn't been much going on in the XZ Utils project recently.
> Translating the latest stable release 5.2.4 would be a good start. The
> next bug fix release 5.2.5 will probably have no changes in the
> translatable strings. Would it be good to first figure out how the
> translations by non-TP people will be handled and then submit 5.2.4 to
> be translated (or submit to a small subgroup to find out if something
> needs to be fixed at xz side first)?
> 
> 
Well, it is possible to exclude some (already existing) po files from the
TP workflow, but this is not very convenient. We should try to move all po
files to the TP. The German translation is almost nine years old, who knows
whether the nameless translator (he has only added his mail address) is still
willing to continue on it? I will ask him and the French translator (CCing this
list and Benno) whether they want to continue on the po files, and if yes,
within the TP or externally. The other translations come from well-known
members of the TP teams.

In case of the German translation, it is well polished in terms of indentations
of the --help output and punctuation. But this is not all a good translation
needs: We need a consistent use of terms, and it should follow the syntax and
grammar conventions of the translation teams (GNU TP, Gnome, Debian, Ubuntu
etc.), which are actually independent from each other, but maintain similar
dictionaries and regulations. I'm the coordinator of the German TP team, and
I would welcome to have the XZ translation maintenance in our team.

Best Regards,
Mario






Re: [xz-devel] Translation platform for XZ ?

2019-02-21 Thread Lasse Collin
Hello!

On 2019-02-17 Mario Blättermann wrote:
> It would be nice if xz would be integrated into a global translation
> platform.

Benno Schulenberg asked me about this in 2016. I didn't want to think
about it at that moment and then it was forgotten. :-/ Let's try again
now.

> Once you are planning a new release, create a pre-release tarball two
> weeks before. Update the translation template (*.pot) and send it to
> the TP coordinator. He will merge this new template with the existing
> po files and send these to the teams (even to that teams which still
> haven't submitted a translation for xz).

The instructions to the package maintainers tell to send an URL to a
source package instead of just sending a POT file. I suppose the URL
method is the right way. Having the whole package available for testing
is important.

> Two weeks later, you pull the updated po files back from TP and make
> your release. That's all, and for more convenience, it can be simply
> scripted.

I worry that it's not that simple. My experience is that I need to look
through the translations because most have had some errors in aligning
columns in --help and --list outputs. In some cases it has taken
several tries until a translator has gotten it correctly done. 

There is debug/translation.bash to see the translations in action, and
there are instructions in README section 4. Multiple translators having
similar problems suggests that there's a problem in my code or
instructions, but I don't know how to improve.

I wonder should a few experienced translators look at this first so
that possible problems at my side can be fixed. It doesn't sound great
if I get 30 new translations and 25 need similar fixes and I need to
explain them to each translator separately.

From Benno Schulenberg I understood that most xz translators are already
part of TP (German and French were/are not). This needs to be sorted
out too, I guess. I suppose it would be convenient if all translations
were handled via TP (no external translations).

There hasn't been much going on in the XZ Utils project recently.
Translating the latest stable release 5.2.4 would be a good start. The
next bug fix release 5.2.5 will probably have no changes in the
translatable strings. Would it be good to first figure out how the
translations by non-TP people will be handled and then submit 5.2.4 to
be translated (or submit to a small subgroup to find out if something
needs to be fixed at xz side first)?

-- 
Lasse Collin  |  IRC: Larhzu @ IRCnet & Freenode