Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Janek Kozicki (yade)]

Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 21:22:41 +0200)

> On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 19:16, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
> wrote:
> 
> >  They are listed in the pipeline and marked as
> > success, but inside you only have "Skipping this test, because it's a
> > WIP merge request."
> >
> >
> Oh! That's why it looks as long as usual but it's faster!
> I'm sorry, obviously I lost track at some point. :)

yeah. Also - these build servers are sometimes used by other people
to calculate some stuff, and sometimes some of them are slower or
faster than usual. If you see that a build is taking more than 2
minutes (when ccache is expected to be fully applicable), it can be
faster to click "cancel" then "retry" (hoping that it will retry on
another build server from the available ones), because this
particular build server is under high load right now. Micromanaging
them on my side (adding/removing them manually to gitlab runner
config) depending on what stuff is running on each of them does not
make sense. They all work nice. Just randomly some of them are slower
for a couple of hours.

I type this, because right now y6pak is slow, and 15 minutes is
spent on ccached compilation that normally takes 2 minutes.

 
> > Maybe think about upgrading your pc to 20.04 :)
> Man... You can't imagine. If I install it by myself it will be ok but I
> will not have access to univ intranet.
> I thus rely on IT service, but IT is not yet ready to migrate from 16 to 18
> (I asked many times). They have issues with multiple things.

ouch. That's not good. Tell them to go directly to 20.04 :) They wasted 2 years 
;)


> That's ok. I can live with schroot/docker and friends, I will have to.
> I know I have a long email somewhere with all your instructions to do so. :)


-- 
--
Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
Gdańsk University of Technology
Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
--
http://yade-dem.org/
http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)

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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Bruno Chareyre]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 19:16, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
wrote:

>  They are listed in the pipeline and marked as
> success, but inside you only have "Skipping this test, because it's a
> WIP merge request."
>
>
Oh! That's why it looks as long as usual but it's faster!
I'm sorry, obviously I lost track at some point. :)

Maybe think about upgrading your pc to 20.04 :)
>

Man... You can't imagine. If I install it by myself it will be ok but I
will not have access to univ intranet.
I thus rely on IT service, but IT is not yet ready to migrate from 16 to 18
(I asked many times). They have issues with multiple things.
That's ok. I can live with schroot/docker and friends, I will have to.
I know I have a long email somewhere with all your instructions to do so. :)

B
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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Janek Kozicki (yade)]

Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 17:17:08 +0200)

> still, compiling with 5 number formats in the minimal build is a bit
> overkill maybe.

One number format (long double) is compiled in WIP, all the others
are all disabled. They are listed in the pipeline and marked as
success, but inside you only have "Skipping this test, because it's a
WIP merge request."

Or did I miss something?

yeah. You can make gitlab-ci even shorter. And revert that when you are
finished with this ;)

Maybe think about upgrading your pc to 20.04 :)

cheers
Janek

> The speed record is because I'm still that idiot trying to debug via gitlab
> instead of just playing a 18.04 image locally...
> 
> I see that even for WIP we are compiling a long list. Four different
> high-precision formats, for instance.
> In my case I'm interested in reaching step2 build-doc as fast as possible.
> 95% of the pipeline is a waste.
> Ok, maybe that's too specific and I should just trick gitlab.ci... but
> still, compiling with 5 number formats in the minimal build is a bit
> overkill maybe.
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 15:25, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, it looks like you are breaking some speed record here ;)
> > A build below 16 minutes. Almost 10, if you don't look at unnecessary
> > stuff :)
> >
> > Yes, debug is building doc. It is because we had a rare bug caught
> > only by ASAN or debug during doc building and nowhere else. So we decided
> > to
> > keep testing it that way.
> >
> > cheers!
> > Janek
> >
> > Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 15:08:20 +0200)
> >
> > > Thanks. I know the WIP one indeed but I thought 1/ it was not *that*
> > > faster, and 2/ it was not building doc.
> > > I was wrong on both it seems. :)
> > > Also, it seems debug build includes building doc now, do you confirm?
> > > Things change fast! (for good :)
> > > B
> > >
> > > On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 14:35, Janek Kozicki (yade) <
> > jkozicki-y...@pg.edu.pl>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
> > > > It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
> > > > gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
> > > > with WIP:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > > Janek
> > > >
> > > > Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33
> > +0200)
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Janek,
> > > > > As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab
> > jobs
> > > > > since they were way too long.
> > > > > Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag
> > we can
> > > > > set for building some branches with lightweight series of
> > builds/test/doc
> > > > > on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
> > > > > We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's
> > always a
> > > > > risk to push it.
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bruno
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > --
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Bruno Chareyre
> > > > > Associate Professor
> > > > > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > > > > Lab. 3SR
> > > > > BP 53
> > > > > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > > > > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > Email too brief?
> > > > > Here's why: email charter
> > > > > <
> > https://marcuselliott.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/emailCharter.jpg
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > --
> > > > Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> > > > Gdańsk University of Technology
> > > > Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> > > > Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> > > > --
> > > > http://yade-dem.org/
> > > > http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > ___
> > > Bruno Chareyre
> > > Associate Professor
> > > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > > Lab. 3SR
> > > BP 53
> > > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > > 
> > >
> > > Email too brief?
> > > Here's why: email charter
> > >  > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> > Gdańsk University of Technology
> > Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> > Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> > --
> > http://yade-dem.org/
> > http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> ___
> Bruno Chareyre
> Associate Professor
> ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> Lab. 3SR
> BP 53
> 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> 
> 
> Email too brief?
> Here's why: email charter
> 


-- 
--
Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
Gdańsk University of Technology
Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
--
http://yade-dem.org/

Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Bruno Chareyre]

I meant fast like this ;)
https://gitlab.com/yade-dev/trunk/pipelines/147230965
B

On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 17:17, Bruno Chareyre 
wrote:

> The speed record is because I'm still that idiot trying to debug via
> gitlab instead of just playing a 18.04 image locally...
>
> I see that even for WIP we are compiling a long list. Four different
> high-precision formats, for instance.
> In my case I'm interested in reaching step2 build-doc as fast as possible.
> 95% of the pipeline is a waste.
> Ok, maybe that's too specific and I should just trick gitlab.ci... but
> still, compiling with 5 number formats in the minimal build is a bit
> overkill maybe.
> B
>
>
>
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 15:25, Janek Kozicki (yade) <
> jkozicki-y...@pg.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, it looks like you are breaking some speed record here ;)
>> A build below 16 minutes. Almost 10, if you don't look at unnecessary
>> stuff :)
>>
>> Yes, debug is building doc. It is because we had a rare bug caught
>> only by ASAN or debug during doc building and nowhere else. So we decided
>> to
>> keep testing it that way.
>>
>> cheers!
>> Janek
>>
>> Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 15:08:20 +0200)
>>
>> > Thanks. I know the WIP one indeed but I thought 1/ it was not *that*
>> > faster, and 2/ it was not building doc.
>> > I was wrong on both it seems. :)
>> > Also, it seems debug build includes building doc now, do you confirm?
>> > Things change fast! (for good :)
>> > B
>> >
>> > On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 14:35, Janek Kozicki (yade) <
>> jkozicki-y...@pg.edu.pl>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
>> > > It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
>> > > gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
>> > > with WIP:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > cheers
>> > > Janek
>> > >
>> > > Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33
>> +0200)
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Janek,
>> > > > As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling
>> gitlab jobs
>> > > > since they were way too long.
>> > > > Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag
>> we can
>> > > > set for building some branches with lightweight series of
>> builds/test/doc
>> > > > on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
>> > > > We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's
>> always a
>> > > > risk to push it.
>> > > > Cheers
>> > > > Bruno
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > --
>> > > > ___
>> > > > Bruno Chareyre
>> > > > Associate Professor
>> > > > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
>> > > > Lab. 3SR
>> > > > BP 53
>> > > > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
>> > > > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
>> > > > 
>> > > >
>> > > > Email too brief?
>> > > > Here's why: email charter
>> > > > <
>> https://marcuselliott.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/emailCharter.jpg
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > --
>> > > Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
>> > > Gdańsk University of Technology
>> > > Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
>> > > Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
>> > > --
>> > > http://yade-dem.org/
>> > > http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > ___
>> > Bruno Chareyre
>> > Associate Professor
>> > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
>> > Lab. 3SR
>> > BP 53
>> > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
>> > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
>> > 
>> >
>> > Email too brief?
>> > Here's why: email charter
>> > <
>> https://marcuselliott.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/emailCharter.jpg>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
>> Gdańsk University of Technology
>> Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
>> Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
>> --
>> http://yade-dem.org/
>> http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> ___
> Bruno Chareyre
> Associate Professor
> ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> Lab. 3SR
> BP 53
> 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> 
>
> Email too brief?
> Here's why: email charter
> 
>


-- 
-- 
___
Bruno Chareyre
Associate Professor
ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
Lab. 3SR
BP 53
38041 Grenoble cedex 9
Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21


Email too brief?
Here's why: email charter

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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Bruno Chareyre]

The speed record is because I'm still that idiot trying to debug via gitlab
instead of just playing a 18.04 image locally...

I see that even for WIP we are compiling a long list. Four different
high-precision formats, for instance.
In my case I'm interested in reaching step2 build-doc as fast as possible.
95% of the pipeline is a waste.
Ok, maybe that's too specific and I should just trick gitlab.ci... but
still, compiling with 5 number formats in the minimal build is a bit
overkill maybe.
B



On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 15:25, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
wrote:

> Yeah, it looks like you are breaking some speed record here ;)
> A build below 16 minutes. Almost 10, if you don't look at unnecessary
> stuff :)
>
> Yes, debug is building doc. It is because we had a rare bug caught
> only by ASAN or debug during doc building and nowhere else. So we decided
> to
> keep testing it that way.
>
> cheers!
> Janek
>
> Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 15:08:20 +0200)
>
> > Thanks. I know the WIP one indeed but I thought 1/ it was not *that*
> > faster, and 2/ it was not building doc.
> > I was wrong on both it seems. :)
> > Also, it seems debug build includes building doc now, do you confirm?
> > Things change fast! (for good :)
> > B
> >
> > On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 14:35, Janek Kozicki (yade) <
> jkozicki-y...@pg.edu.pl>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
> > > It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
> > > gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
> > > with WIP:
> > >
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Janek
> > >
> > > Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33
> +0200)
> > >
> > > > Hi Janek,
> > > > As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab
> jobs
> > > > since they were way too long.
> > > > Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag
> we can
> > > > set for building some branches with lightweight series of
> builds/test/doc
> > > > on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
> > > > We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's
> always a
> > > > risk to push it.
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bruno
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > --
> > > > ___
> > > > Bruno Chareyre
> > > > Associate Professor
> > > > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > > > Lab. 3SR
> > > > BP 53
> > > > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > > > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > Email too brief?
> > > > Here's why: email charter
> > > > <
> https://marcuselliott.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/emailCharter.jpg
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> > > Gdańsk University of Technology
> > > Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> > > Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> > > --
> > > http://yade-dem.org/
> > > http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > ___
> > Bruno Chareyre
> > Associate Professor
> > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > Lab. 3SR
> > BP 53
> > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > 
> >
> > Email too brief?
> > Here's why: email charter
> >  >
>
>
> --
> --
> Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> Gdańsk University of Technology
> Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> --
> http://yade-dem.org/
> http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
>
>
>

-- 
-- 
___
Bruno Chareyre
Associate Professor
ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
Lab. 3SR
BP 53
38041 Grenoble cedex 9
Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21


Email too brief?
Here's why: email charter

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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Janek Kozicki (yade)]

Yeah, it looks like you are breaking some speed record here ;)
A build below 16 minutes. Almost 10, if you don't look at unnecessary stuff :)

Yes, debug is building doc. It is because we had a rare bug caught
only by ASAN or debug during doc building and nowhere else. So we decided to
keep testing it that way.

cheers!
Janek

Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 15:08:20 +0200)

> Thanks. I know the WIP one indeed but I thought 1/ it was not *that*
> faster, and 2/ it was not building doc.
> I was wrong on both it seems. :)
> Also, it seems debug build includes building doc now, do you confirm?
> Things change fast! (for good :)
> B
> 
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 14:35, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
> > It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
> > gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
> > with WIP:
> >
> >
> > cheers
> > Janek
> >
> > Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33 +0200)
> >
> > > Hi Janek,
> > > As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab jobs
> > > since they were way too long.
> > > Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag we can
> > > set for building some branches with lightweight series of builds/test/doc
> > > on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
> > > We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's always a
> > > risk to push it.
> > > Cheers
> > > Bruno
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > ___
> > > Bruno Chareyre
> > > Associate Professor
> > > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > > Lab. 3SR
> > > BP 53
> > > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > > 
> > >
> > > Email too brief?
> > > Here's why: email charter
> > >  > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> > Gdańsk University of Technology
> > Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> > Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> > --
> > http://yade-dem.org/
> > http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> ___
> Bruno Chareyre
> Associate Professor
> ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> Lab. 3SR
> BP 53
> 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> 
> 
> Email too brief?
> Here's why: email charter
> 


-- 
--
Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
Gdańsk University of Technology
Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
--
http://yade-dem.org/
http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)

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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Bruno Chareyre]

Thanks. I know the WIP one indeed but I thought 1/ it was not *that*
faster, and 2/ it was not building doc.
I was wrong on both it seems. :)
Also, it seems debug build includes building doc now, do you confirm?
Things change fast! (for good :)
B

On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 14:35, Janek Kozicki (yade) 
wrote:

> Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
> It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
> gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
> with WIP:
>
>
> cheers
> Janek
>
> Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33 +0200)
>
> > Hi Janek,
> > As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab jobs
> > since they were way too long.
> > Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag we can
> > set for building some branches with lightweight series of builds/test/doc
> > on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
> > We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's always a
> > risk to push it.
> > Cheers
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > ___
> > Bruno Chareyre
> > Associate Professor
> > ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> > Lab. 3SR
> > BP 53
> > 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> > Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> > 
> >
> > Email too brief?
> > Here's why: email charter
> >  >
>
>
> --
> --
> Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
> Gdańsk University of Technology
> Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
> Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
> --
> http://yade-dem.org/
> http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)
>
>
>

-- 
-- 
___
Bruno Chareyre
Associate Professor
ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
Lab. 3SR
BP 53
38041 Grenoble cedex 9
Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21


Email too brief?
Here's why: email charter

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Re: [Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Janek Kozicki (yade)]

Yes, we have a quick pipeline. Add the "WIP: " in front of the title.
It is being checked by the build system (searach for WIP in
gitlab-ci.yml file :), and some builds are cancelled if they start
with WIP:


cheers
Janek

Bruno Chareyre said: (by the date of Mon, 18 May 2020 12:51:33 +0200)

> Hi Janek,
> As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab jobs
> since they were way too long.
> Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag we can
> set for building some branches with lightweight series of builds/test/doc
> on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
> We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's always a
> risk to push it.
> Cheers
> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> ___
> Bruno Chareyre
> Associate Professor
> ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
> Lab. 3SR
> BP 53
> 38041 Grenoble cedex 9
> Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21
> 
> 
> Email too brief?
> Here's why: email charter
> 


-- 
--
Janek Kozicki, PhD. DSc. Arch. Assoc. Prof.
Gdańsk University of Technology
Faculty of Applied Physics and Mathematics
Department of Theoretical Physics and Quantum Information
--
http://yade-dem.org/
http://pg.edu.pl/jkozicki (click English flag on top right)

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[Yade-dev] Do we have "quick" pipeline on gitlab?

[Bruno Chareyre]

Hi Janek,
As I was pushing at high frequency recently I kept cancelling gitlab jobs
since they were way too long.
Is there a trick I miss? Would it make sense to have a special tag we can
set for building some branches with lightweight series of builds/test/doc
on them (say, ubuntu + debian)?
We can actually trick the gitlab.ci but that's ugly and there's always a
risk to push it.
Cheers
Bruno



-- 
-- 
___
Bruno Chareyre
Associate Professor
ENSE³ - Grenoble INP
Lab. 3SR
BP 53
38041 Grenoble cedex 9
Tél : +33 4 56 52 86 21


Email too brief?
Here's why: email charter

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