Re: On Yojimbo and Time Machine

2008-02-15 Thread Florian Leitner
Coming to think of it, there would be a way to back up Yojimbo with  
Time Machine: you just need to create a sparse bundle disk image  
with Disk Utility, put your Yj DB on that and make the Yojimbo folder  
in ~/Library/Application Support/ an alias to the mountpoint of the  
image in /Volumes. Finally, write a little Automator script to mount  
the image, e.g. at startup, and start Yojimbo through the script after  
mounting the image. Time Machine can back up the Yj DB in pieces of 8  
MB, because you chose sparse bundle disk image!.


Basically, it is much the same as you might have already for Mail -  
e.g., I use an encrypted sparse bundle disk image for my mail folder,  
which I mount before starting mail, requesting the password and then  
starting Mail - and a nice way to safely store your e-mail, too.


-Florian





On 15.02.2008, at 7:37, Jan Erik Moström wrote:


Rhet Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08-02-14 15.58


I would never use a backup solution that didn't run on live data.
Thankfully the days of they system is down for backup are long  
gone.

Whether I use Time Machine or I use Super Duper or Chronosync or
something else, I'm certainly not about to take my machine offline or
logout to do the backup.


Your misunderstanding me, if you run a backup on a programs data  
file (without the applications talking to each other) you always run  
the risk of inconsistent data (unless you have a filesystem that  
does some fancy stuff). For example, if you have an application with  
several files that in some way depend on each other - for example a  
database that store data as individual files and then have an index  
file to keep track of them - there is always the chance that the  
backup is done between the modification of the individual files  
which would make the data in the backup inconsistent.


So while I'm running TM for my whole disk, I'm also running a second  
program for applications that is constantly running like my email  
program.



   jem
--
Jan Erik Moström, www.mostrom.pp.se


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Re: On Yojimbo and Time Machine

2008-02-15 Thread Rhet Turnbull
This is getting offtopic for Yojimbo so I won't continue past this
email. I appreciate your comments Jan and I do understand the issue of
data of data consistency.  The only way to completely avoid that is to
take the system completely down for backup and either run the backup
in single user mode or better yet, run the backup in target disk mode
without even the OS running.  But I won't do that because of
convenience nor will most other users. I don't ever close applications
or log off my machine unless a software update forces me to and I
suspect there are many more like me. Most people don't backup because
it's inconvenient which is one of the main things that Apple was
trying to address with Time Machine. Time Machine also has the added
advantage of provided checkpoints throughout the day that you can
roll-back to (at least for specific files).  I'd much rather take the
very small chance of data inconsistency than accept the inconvenience
of offline backups.

Now to get it back to Yojimbo so we're not completely off topic ;-) If
Yojimbo stored records as separate files and kept metadata and/or
index data in smaller DBs then the backup regime would only have to
backup those files that had changed instead of the entire xxxMB
sqllite file that Yojimbo uses now. I believe that would decrease the
risk of inconsistency as opposed to the case now, where Yojimbo could
write the the large database file while the backup is trying to copy
it.

And finally, once users get used to the power of Time Machine's
rollback capability, they'll demand it.  There are several times I
wish I could have rolled back a Yojimbo record (this is exacerbated by
Yojimbo's lack of read-only records which has allowed me to
accidentally edit Yojimbo data that I didn't intend to).

Cheers,
Rhet

On 2/15/08, Jan Erik Moström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rhet Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08-02-14 15.58


  I would never use a backup solution that didn't run on live data.
  Thankfully the days of they system is down for backup are long gone.
  Whether I use Time Machine or I use Super Duper or Chronosync or
  something else, I'm certainly not about to take my machine offline or
  logout to do the backup.


 Your misunderstanding me, if you run a backup on a programs data
  file (without the applications talking to each other) you always
  run the risk of inconsistent data (unless you have a filesystem
  that does some fancy stuff). For example, if you have an
  application with several files that in some way depend on each
  other - for example a database that store data as individual
  files and then have an index file to keep track of them - there
  is always the chance that the backup is done between the
  modification of the individual files which would make the data
  in the backup inconsistent.

  So while I'm running TM for my whole disk, I'm also running a
  second program for applications that is constantly running like
  my email program.



  jem
  --
  Jan Erik Moström, www.mostrom.pp.se


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Ok to backup Yojimbo DB now?

2008-02-15 Thread Neil Faiman
I read a discussion somewhere recently suggesting that Yojimbo ran  
into the same bug as Aperture, where a Time Machine backup while you  
were using the application could corrupt the database, so you should  
exclude the Yojimbo database from Time Machine backups.


Now I've read that 10.5.2 fixes the Time Machine bug with Aperture.  
Does that mean that it's safe to let Time Machine back up the Yojimbo  
database, too?


Thanks,

Neil Faiman

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Re: On Yojimbo and Time Machine

2008-02-15 Thread Robert Sweet
And where exactly is the folder we should exclude?
Thanks.


On Feb 13, 2008 3:22 PM, Niels Kobschaetzki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Oct 31, 2007 5:03 PM, Steve Kalkwarf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Before things get too far out of control, I want to clarify some
  facts about how Time Machine and Yojimbo.
 
  Yojimbo is built on CoreData, the same underlying technology as
  Aperture, and several other products. Because of issues related
  to how Time Machine and CoreData manage files on disk, Apple
  recommends excluding Aperture data from Time Machine backups,
  and managing Aperture backups independently:
 
  http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306853
 
  For the moment, we are recommending the same thing.

 The document states now that the problems are fixed with 10.5.2 for
 Aperture -- does this apply to Yojimbo as well?

 Niels

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Re: On Yojimbo and Time Machine

2008-02-15 Thread Lance


Hello-

On Feb 14, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Jan Erik Moström wrote:


Rhet Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08-02-14 15.09


Then again, Yojimbo's habit of storing
everything in a monolithic database has been one of my (few)  
critiques

since Yojimbo was released.


Curious, why is this bad?


In the case of a backup the monolithic solution is extremely  
annoying.  As a good analogue, consider Apple Mail. Each email is its  
own document.  When my system backs itself up, each new message is  
backed up cleanly with a very small upload.  In the case of Yojimbo,  
instead of pushing only those files that have changed, the backup  
takes much longer since the entire file needs to be copied repeatedly  
even if only a small change/addition occurred.



I hope that BareBones and/or Apple gets this fixed soon. Requiring
the user to have two separate backup plans is unacceptable.


Hmmm, I would always be skeptical of a backup solution that runs on  
live data.


By having individual files, the problem you rightly note above becomes  
less pronounced since the vast majority of the backup would happen to  
files that are closed.  Obviously some sort of main db file which  
organizes these smaller files would still suffer from the problem,  
however in most cases these sorts of files could be rebuilt anyway  
since the important data (ie: the individual files) would be available.


I use LifeAgent as my backup solution since it seems to work pretty  
well over wireless NAS (such as Airport extreme) and it tracks  
changing files in ~real time. For a laptop, it seems to work pretty  
well.  Unfortunately though, my nightly backup over a wireless often  
consists of a the huge Yojimbo databasewaiting...waiting...you get  
the picture.


-Lance


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Re: On Yojimbo and Time Machine

2008-02-15 Thread Patrick Woolsey
Robert Sweet [EMAIL PROTECTED] sez:

And where exactly is the folder we should exclude?


http://faq.barebones.com/do_getanswer.php?record_id=133



Regards,

 Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc.http://www.barebones.com
P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048

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Lazyemaillist Question

2008-02-15 Thread Robert Occhialini Jr.
In an attempt to be lazy, does anyone have an Applescript to pull in a  
list of unarchived urls from del.icio.us and archive them in Yojimbo?


I wrote a similar script for DevonThink, but would like to use Yojimbo  
to route some stories too.


Robert Occhialini

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Question: Tag Case

2008-02-15 Thread Robert Occhialini Jr.

Tags in Yojimbo are case insensitive, correct?

If so, why does the app insist on lowercasing the first letter of tags  
I input manually?


Robert Occhialini

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Re: Ok to backup Yojimbo DB now?

2008-02-15 Thread Niels Kobschaetzki
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Neil Faiman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read a discussion somewhere recently suggesting that Yojimbo ran
  into the same bug as Aperture, where a Time Machine backup while you
  were using the application could corrupt the database, so you should
  exclude the Yojimbo database from Time Machine backups.

  Now I've read that 10.5.2 fixes the Time Machine bug with Aperture.
  Does that mean that it's safe to let Time Machine back up the Yojimbo
  database, too?

There is another thread about that -- short answer: no

Niels

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