Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
On 6/13/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Never really struck me as a valid explanation, this question of rights. My understanding of copyright is that anybody can cover anybody else's songs as long as the proper royalties are paid, where applicable. This was further expanded back in the eighties when 2 Live Crew appropriated Born In The USA as a theme for one of their raps, where it was decided that even in a parody one doesn't need to get prior permission to use the composed tune. Anyone can legally do a straight cover version, with minimal changes to fit the artist (such as changing 'he' for 'she' or whatever), of a previously published song. Anyone can also do a parody of a song without legal permission. However, changing the lyrics to satirical ones, if not parodying the song in question, is illegal. If I rerecorded a Coldplay song and gave it satirical lyrics about Tony Blair, I would need Coldplay's permission. If I rerecorded the same song, and gave it lyrics about how bad Coldplay were, I wouldn't, and it would count as parody. The parody exception has always existed in law. There was a decision in the 80s involving a band sampling Pretty Woman, but I'm having computer problems and can't hunt down the reference. -- The National Pep - Pop Music To Hurt You Forever http://myspace.com/thenationalpep MP3s now up Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/yXLolB/TM ~- For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zappa-List/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
I'd be willing to bet that it was released because FZ could purchase the rights to do so, unlike the Texas Motel Medley where he couldn't. I know that some of the US releases of that tour were slightly different from the UK and world releases because acquiring the rights to some tunes. Wasn't Bolero one of them? Lawyers is such crazy peoples! Yes, the Bolero had to be removed from later pressings because Ravel's heirs didn't approve. And that's just one example of copyrights taken to the extreme... best wishes, Marco Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one�click away.� Make Yahoo! your home page�now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/yXLolB/TM ~- For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zappa-List/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zappa-List] Stairway
I really don't know why Frank decided to include STH, but according to Mike Keneally, the idea for the solo was not Frank's... ...me and Paul Carman launching into Jimmy Page's "Stairway" solo in unison without telling Frank we were going to (he'd been playing an improvised solo in that spot), Frank digging it, waiting until we were done, then saying "OK. Now show it to the REST of the horn section"... from: http://www.keneally.com/keneally13.html From: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glen YoungSent: Monday, June 12, 2006 6:08 PMTo: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Zappa-List] Stairway Just been reading the latest edition of the UK music/movies magazine Uncut which this month has a retrospective article on Led Zep 4.It got me thinking as to why Frank decided to cover STH on the 88 tour ?I don't think I've ever seen an explanation of thiswas it to show how clever he could be in transposing the guitar solo to the horn section,did he just like the song or is there another reason ?Anyone know ?Glen --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 11/06/2006 __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 11/06/2006
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
I'm sure that the 2 most important reasons for playing STH were that in was 1) Fun and 2) Funny. What else matters? Frank had nothing else to prove. rh --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/12/06 12:11:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just been reading the latest edition of the UK music/movies magazine Uncut which this month has a retrospective article on Led Zep 4. It got me thinking as to why Frank decided to cover STH on the 88 tour ? I don't think I've ever seen an explanation of thiswas it to show how clever he could be in transposing the guitar solo to the horn section,did he just like the song or is there another reason ?IIRC, FZ claimed to have never heard the song (or at least claimed that he wasn't terribly familiar with it), but knew it as a rock classic.. I think the idea to have the horn section do the guitar solo (Mike Keneally plays the guitar solo on guitar as well, mind you) on the spot in rehearsals when MK played the solo and one of the horn players (either Carman or McGettrick) also knew the solo and played along with him.. I don't imagine he put a lot of thought into how clever that would be, he probably just thought it would be more interesting than a regular old guitar solo. As for the WHY of ultimately deciding to play it (and release it on album), I'm not really sure. --Milhouse __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/yXLolB/TM ~- For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zappa-List/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
Never really struck me as a valid explanation, thisquestion of "rights". My understanding of copyright is that anybody can cover anybody else's songs as long as the proper royalties are paid, where applicable. This was further expanded back in the eighties when 2 Live Crew appropriated "Born In The USA" as a theme for one of their raps, where it was decided that even in a parody one doesn't need to get prior permission to use the composed tune. Just think of the hundreds of Beatles covers out there. In no way was there any quality control exercised by the copyright holders. They just wanted to be assured that if that treacly version of "Let It Be" was released, they would be paid their cut. Sampling, however, gets a bit more expensive and does need prior permission before release unless it's under the radar, like the new Girl Talk album on Illegal Arts, which is some kind of wack. (It's called Night Ripper, if'n you're interested.) Not Dead Yet,Bill Amutis[EMAIL PROTECTED]web.mac.com/mredison(Ol' Baggy Eyes)Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm.-Frank Zappa -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.comSent: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:55:32 -0400Subject: Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway As for the WHY of ultimately deciding to play it (and release it on album), I'm not really sure. --Milhouse I'd be willing to bet that it was released because FZ could purchase the rights to do so, unlike the Texas Motel Medley where he couldn't. I know that some of the US releases of that tour were slightly different from the UK and world releases because acquiring the rights to some tunes. Wasn't Bolero one of them? Lawyers is such crazy peoples! SOFA Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [Zappa-List] Stairway
This thread makes me want to hunt up my copy of Dread Zeppelins 500,000 Miles. Jim L From: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Zappa-List@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:56 PM To: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway Never really struck me as a valid explanation, thisquestion of rights. My understanding of copyright is that anybody can cover anybody else's songs as long as the proper royalties are paid, where applicable. This was further expanded back in the eighties when 2 Live Crew appropriated Born In The USA as a theme for one of their raps, where it was decided that even in a parody one doesn't need to get prior permission to use the composed tune. Just think of the hundreds of Beatles covers out there. In no way was there any quality control exercised by the copyright holders. They just wanted to be assured that if that treacly version of Let It Be was released, they would be paid their cut. Sampling, however, gets a bit more expensive and does need prior permission before release unless it's under the radar, like the new Girl Talk album on Illegal Arts, which is some kind of wack. (It's called Night Ripper, if'n you're interested.) Not Dead Yet, Bill Amutis [EMAIL PROTECTED] web.mac.com/mredison (Ol' Baggy Eyes) Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm.-Frank Zappa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zappa-List@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:55:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway As for the WHY of ultimately deciding to play it (and release it on album), I'm not really sure. --Milhouse I'd be willing to bet that it was released because FZ could purchase the rights to do so, unlike the Texas Motel Medley where he couldn't. I know that some of the US releases of that tour were slightly different from the UK and world releases because acquiring the rights to some tunes. Wasn't Bolero one of them? Lawyers is such crazy peoples! SOFA Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
In a message dated 6/13/06 5:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Never really struck me as a valid explanation, thisquestion of "rights". My understanding of copyright is that anybody can cover anybody else's songs as long as the proper royalties are paid, where applicable. This was further expanded back in the eighties when 2 Live Crew appropriated "Born In The USA" as a theme for one of their raps, where it was decided that even in a parody one doesn't need to get prior permission to use the composed tune. This is true, but think of "Weird Al" Yankovic, for instance.. while he doesn't expressly NEED, in legal terms,permission to record a parody of someone's song, he always contacts the writers and artists who wrote and/or recorded whatever song he plans on doing as a matter of consideration, ettiquette and not wanting to piss anybody off. It also helps prevent a situation where, let's say, an artist would hear one of his parodies and decide that the subject matter of the lyrics was something detrimental to their charachter or public image and decide to sue. He consults with the artists first to avoid things like that. I suspect the case of FZ consulting the members of Led Zeppelin about releasing a cover of "Stairway" may have been the same sort of thing. There were rights issues in Europe with FZ releasing "Bolero" (and perhaps the Stravinsky and Bartok pieces on "MakeA Jazz Noise Here", I'm not sure) but I would have to do some research amongst the many FZ-related bookmarked web pages I have to get the details on that. --Milhouse __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
In a message dated 6/12/06 12:11:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just been reading the latest edition of the UK music/movies magazine Uncut which this month has a retrospective article on Led Zep 4.It got me thinking as to why Frank decided to cover STH on the 88 tour ?I don't think I've ever seen an explanation of thiswas it to show how clever he could be in transposing the guitar solo to the horn section,did he just like the song or is there another reason ? IIRC, FZ claimed to have never heard the song (or at least claimed that he wasn't terribly familiar with it), but knew it as a "rock classic".. I think the idea to have the horn section do the guitar solo (Mike Keneally plays the guitar solo on guitar as well, mind you) on the spot in rehearsals when MK played the solo and one of the horn players (either Carman or McGettrick) also knew the solo and played along with him.. I don't imagine he put a lot of thought into how "clever" that would be, he probably just thought it would be more interesting than a regular old guitar solo. As for the WHY of ultimately deciding to play it (and release it on album), I'm not really sure. --Milhouse __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [Zappa-List] Stairway
As for the WHY of ultimately deciding to play it (and release it on album), I'm not really sure. --Milhouse I'd be willing to bet that it was released because FZ could purchase the rights to do so, unlike the Texas Motel Medley where he couldn't. I know that some of the US releases of that tour were slightly different from the UK and world releases because acquiring the rights to some tunes. Wasn't Bolero one of them? Lawyers is such crazy peoples! SOFA __._,_.___ For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you. SPONSORED LINKS Personals Fun family vacation Fun ride Family fun Fun christmas gift Fun apron YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zappa-List" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
